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Joined: Oct 2013
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At my pond today. I spent some time back behind the dam trying to determine how bad my leak is. Since it’s full, I thought the added pressure off all that water might change things a bit. It looks to me like it’s sleeping under the dam in the original bed of the ravine we dammed up. I know it was trenched across two or three feet below the bottom of the old ravine, and then layered and packed as the dam was constructed. We also tried to use a sheepsfoot roller throughout the construction. However the roller was plagued with a leak, which needed to be filled daily (maybe should have been more) and it was also jammed up quite a bit of the time with the small rocks that were mixed in with my clay.
The pond builder left a gap in the dam during construction. He wanted this in case a big rain came during construction. The sheepsfoot roller was broken down completely when this gap was filled in. The gap was about where this original ravine is located.
This first pic behind the dam shows water in the original ravine waterway. It’s been there almost continuously since the dam was completed 4.5 yrs ago. It almost alway has orange algae growing in it, I don’t know if that means anything. There is no noticeable current in this water.


This second picture puts the first one in perspective. The overflow pipe is to the left of this seep. This perspective is downstream from the first picture. Just further back from the dam. The seep in the first picture is actually right below the tree laying across the ditch.



This third picture is even further back from the dam. It shows water in the ditch about a hundred feet from the dam. It also actually shows the emergency drain pipe on the left side of the picture. It’s a blue/green pipe that just angles up to near the top of the dam on the water side. It has two collars on it to prevent water from seeping along side of it.



Once again I see no current in the water. So the good news is it’s not a bad leak, I guess. There’s no good leak right?

I tried soilfloc a few years ago, I think that slowed it down. Is there any way without a current in this seep to try and track back where the water is coming from. (Dye)
I could try soilfloc again, and really concentrate on the area of the pond opposite where this original ravine is.
In normal summer days, I lose about 1/4” a day. It been full for a week. The level is at the bottom of the overflow pipe. The pond is iced over now. If I remember right the water temp has to be fairly warm for soilfloc to work, so I would have to wait until the water warms up.
Also, some of the water in the ravine may be coming off the hillsides, and the back of the dam, as snow melts off.
Just wondering if anyone has any additional suggestions on what I might be able to do?
We had a bad drought last year, and by October when we started getting rains again the pond was almost 5’ below full.
Thanks,
Jeff


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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When I work with clients anything at .25" daily or under I attribute to evaporation and strongly discourage investing time and resources to chase it. Just not worth the $$ and hassle. Considering some areas in the country experience daily evaporation rates as high as .5" I don't professionally consider .25" daily a leak at all as that's less than 2" weekly. I'd invest that $$ into supplemental irrigation [well] if that minor seep bothers you that much. Just my advice - save your $$.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Ask not for whom the dam seeps...


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
When I work with clients anything at .25" daily or under I attribute to evaporation and strongly discourage investing time and resources to chase it. Just not worth the $$ and hassle. Considering some areas in the country experience daily evaporation rates as high as .5" I don't professionally consider .25" daily a leak at all as that's less than 2" weekly. I'd invest that $$ into supplemental irrigation [well] if that minor seep bothers you that much. Just my advice - save your $$.


Thanks TJ, I retire in August and hope to spend a bit more time up there. My 1/4” a day number was based on averages. But we did receive some rain during the period I was measuring. Most were between .1 and .5” with very little if any runoff. So it might be a little more than .25”
There’s little doubt in my mind that the water in the ditch (pictured) is coming from my pond, but with no or very little current it’s hard to measure. It’s just always there.
I still have some soilfloc left. Although it’s been in the barn all winter, and it’s been a cold one. Will the low temps effect the soilfloc? And what temp does the water have to be to use it?
Thanks again,
Jeff


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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As long as polymer remains dry should be good to go. I recommend treating with water temps minimally in the 50s - early Spring good time for treatment prior to macrophyte establishment.

Are you routing all your gutters from home/outbuildings to the pond? It's a cheap and easy project to ditch drain tile from downspouts to the pond...last I checked 100' tile was around $30. You'd be amazed how much water your roofs catch during events...good long term investment.

I would verify your daily water loss now as evaporation is minimal...quantify your data so you understand exactly what you're facing. Use a 1/2" stick of scrap PVC or stake and make 1/2" marks and record daily vertical water loss. I agree you're apparently losing water, but there's a point of diminishing returns chasing a minor seep bearing in mind ALL earthen ponds leak to some degree. Invest that effort into learning how to manage the fishery at a higher level...it's a lot more fun and productive!

At any rate I'm a phone call away if you need help or want to walk through any issues even if it's just to ease your mind. I'm working with a PB client right now losing 5" daily....he'd give his right arm for a 1/4" daily leak!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


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J
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One inch of rain on a 2,500 sq foot roof is almost 1,700 gallons.

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Thanks TJ. It’s been frozen over for weeks, and staying full. Enough runoff from snow etc.. I’ll have to wait until ice out to start measuring again. I’m going to go ahead and at least use up the last of my soilfloc.
There’s a pretty big ravine between the barn/house and the pond, and about 300 yards distance. Keeps me from aerating also. I’ve toyed with the idea of a small dam in the ravine between the barn and pond. Collecting water there and pumping it to the pond, but that would be a pretty big undertaking. That ravine actually has a lot more watershed than the ravine my pond is in. It just wasn’t a good place to build.

I should be grateful I don’t have a more serious leak. It’s just that when the next drought hits, and I end up 5’ below full. Just pretty frustrating.

Thanks again


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Jeff, is there anyway to channel the water from the other ravine?


Bob


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My pond has had a leak/seep every since it was built over 20yrs ago. I am lucky enough that we get enough rain to keep it from going dry. During a hot summer my level will drop over 5'.


Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


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Bob, it’s pretty deep. Has to be 30’ deep. It actually joins in with the ravine my pond is built on, but off of my property. If I try to go upstream on this ravine it gets much further away.
I guess if I had unlimited resources I could make it work, but it’d be easier to run electric and put in a well.
Hopefully we will just not have another drought for a while, but northern MO seems to get regular dry spells.
It’s like TJ said, I don’t think it’s worth worrying about. So far, even when down five feet, the fish are fine. We can still enjoy a swim. Maybe I should dump rock all the way around it as the level drops. It’s nicer to look at than the mud. wink


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Likes: 68
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Jeff:

Running 1.5" PVC from wellhead to pond is a lot cheaper than running conduit to the pond...just something to consider if you're planning on popping a well. I've seen 300' spools of PVC for pretty cheap online. Lining the pond with rock during low spells is a great idea, IMO...aside from the aesthetic improvement during dry periods it also helps reduce erosion and provides some habitat for crays and FHM.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


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Jeff,

My pond also loses the 1/4" to 1/2" a day and I have always contributed that to evaporation. My pond also has an intermittent wet area below the dam, but I am confident that it is from a rising shallow water table. I have the strangest water table that anyone has ever seen. The water in the brick lined, hand dug well, below my dam always has water in it that is several feet above the floor elevation of my basement which is only 50 yards away. The water table is very near the surface at the pond dam base, but slopes downward and goes beneath the basement under the house (thank goodness).

My point is, it is possible to have ground water surface below the dam that is NOT leaking from the pond. I'm not really saying that this is your situation, but worth investigating. Can you move over from your suspected seep at a similar elevation and dig a hole to see if there is ground water there too? If I dig a hole that is deeper than the brick well water level anywhere below the dam, it fills with water. When the weather gives us a lot of rain, the water in the well is higher than the ground around it. It's a bit spooky.


Fish on!,
Noel
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Thanks TJ. I’m on city water out in the country, where our farm/pond is. Ironically, our home in/near St. Louis is on well water! Our water rates, and electric are much higher in rural MO, than down in St Louis. Just weird.
I’ll look into getting a bunch of 4” rock. My tractor has a loader, so I’ll get some tractor therapy at the same time.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,903
Likes: 109
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Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Jeff,

My pond also loses the 1/4" to 1/2" a day and I have always contributed that to evaporation. My pond also has an intermittent wet area below the dam, but I am confident that it is from a rising shallow water table. I have the strangest water table that anyone has ever seen. The water in the brick lined, hand dug well, below my dam always has water in it that is several feet above the floor elevation of my basement which is only 50 yards away. The water table is very near the surface at the pond dam base, but slopes downward and goes beneath the basement under the house (thank goodness).

My point is, it is possible to have ground water surface below the dam that is NOT leaking from the pond. I'm not really saying that this is your situation, but worth investigating. Can you move over from your suspected seep at a similar elevation and dig a hole to see if there is ground water there too? If I dig a hole that is deeper than the brick well water level anywhere below the dam, it fills with water. When the weather gives us a lot of rain, the water in the well is higher than the ground around it. It's a bit spooky.


Interesting! That water is always there (right behind the dam) no matter how dry it gets, and how low the water in the pond gets. It’s always got that weird orange algae in it. Only place I see it. I’ve stared at it, tossed in leaves, I still can’t see any current in it. So it’s slow that’s for sure.
Thanks


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Jeff, I would put all that soilfloc right where the gap in the dam was, from the base to near the surface.

They left a 16 inch wide ditch in my dam, until the very end. It leaked there for a while, then I packed clay into it with a sledgehammer as it settled, and used some concentrated soilfloc. It stopped that leak, but I have others, due to roots left in.

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Thanks John. My “gap” was large enough to drive a bulldozer through, but I have pictures from construction, so I know exactly where it was. I’ll finish off my soilfloc right on top of it. From fairly far out in front of the dam, up as far as it’ll go. I don’t have a lot left.
Thx


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023

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