Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,902
Posts557,119
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,420
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,112
Who's Online Now
5 members (Shorthose, Fishingadventure, Boondoggle, RogersTailgate, jpsdad), 858 guests, and 175 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
I've been lurking on these forums for a while, planning a big pond revamp in the shadows, but it's probably time to emerge from hiding and ask for some suggestions.

The situation:
My family's 20 year-old pond was stocked pretty willy-nilly and we only practiced catch and release, so it's badly out of balance and we'd like to start over fish-wise. Though, there are some concerns about the dam's integrity that we'd like to resolve before we start blowing stacks of Benjamins on revamping the fishery (only to have our investment wash down into the creek 0.5mi away, though I'm sure the local trout fishermen would be thrilled to accidentally catch SMB and YP). The dam has held up for 20 years and the water level has always been pretty stable at full pool (see details below about ample inflow), but upon original construction there was a large wet spot (like generalized light seepage) about half to 2/3rds of the way up the dam, for which we drained the pond and had the builder come back and redo the top half of the dam. That top portion has seemed pretty well sealed since, but in recent years we've noticed some wetness on the back of the dam down lower. I'd been away for a decade angling for a career-induced heart attack before 35 but am just recently back home, so I haven't seen this leaky spot with my own eyes, rather I'm relaying what my parents and brother have seen. We'll try to get some pictures once the snow melts and if it ever dries up enough for the leak to show.

It's hard for you guys to confirm the diagnosis without pics, so for now, I believe it could be 2 potential causes. Either:
Potential Cause A. the builders didn't put in a core trench, so if they didn't compact the lifts well enough down low, we might have light seepage through the bottom of the dam (which is 90ft thick at the bottom).
OR
Potential Cause B. there could be water sneaking in at the seam where the vertical overflow pipe or bottom drain pipe hits the dirt/face of the dam.

Other pond details:
3/4ac hill pond (about 6-8ft deep near inlet, sloping to about 17ft near the dam). It's fed by a smaller but quite steady-flowing stream, along with some underground springs. The pond was built into a ravine/hollow with some pretty good "clayish" soil, and the dam was built in lifts out of this clayish soil as far as we know/remember, without any pure clay core trench. IIRC, they did use a sheeps foot, though I don't remember how big the lifts were. They built the dam during the winter, so the freezing and thawing of lifts may have messed up compaction. Our main vertical overflow pipe is currently clogged (which is another urgent matter to resolve), but once that's fixed, we do have a horizontal drain pipe at the bottom of the pond that we could pull the plug on to drain (if it's not covered up by 20 years worth of muck).

Questions:
1. Would draining the pond compromise the integrity of the dam? Could it cause cracking or more leaks, given the mixed clay soil? (Note: I'd like to eventually drain anyway to nuke the current fish population and stock from scratch)
2. If it's Potential Cause A, a generalized seepage, what would you recommend? Soil-floc when the pond is still full, draining and putting on bentonite, or something else?
3. If it's Potential Cause B, leaking through a seam around the pipes, what would you recommend? I'm thinking we would have to drain and pack bentonite around the pipes where they meet the dam.
4. Any suggestions on how to unclog a vertical overflow pipe? What about if it's actually clogged in the horizontal piece? (IIRC, the vertical part is about 17ft tall, but the horizontal piece from pond bottom to outlet stream is probably closer to 90ft long.)
5. Any other general comments, potential causes of the leak, etc.?

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if you'd like any more info.

Last edited by Drew Snyder; 02/18/19 12:02 AM. Reason: Forgot detail that dam was built during winter.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Hello Drew:

Welcome to the forum, but sorry to hear about your leaking issues. I help our forum family with leak and other issues, feel free to reach out anytime via PM or with my email address below. I'm happy to hop on a call and learn more about your situation and review your options. My time is free to Pond Boss members, just here to help.

TJ

tj@hudlandmgmt.com


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
Thanks a lot TJ! I've read a lot by you in other threads, so I'd be thrilled to get your input. I'll PM you shortly...

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
Update:
I'm coordinating the pond revamp with my parents (who own the property) and brother, and it seems I misunderstood the situation a bit. The current seepage isn't that bad, as there's apparently only a bit of wetness in years when we've had a lot of rain (which is kinda how rain works).

Their concern is that draining the pond (to de-muck and nuke the current LMB and BG population) would cause the dam to crack or blow out. I'll consult with TJ in the event that real leaks do appear, but in the meantime, the big question is:

In your experience, does draining a pond cause new leaks to form or cause dams to blow out? How do you view the riskiness of draining a dammed pond?

Right now, we have a very boring and unbalanced LMB and BG pond, so our dream of having SMB and YP, or anything different, is very dependent on being able to drain and reset, but for now my parents are terrified that draining is going to blow out the dam.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,748
Likes: 33
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,748
Likes: 33
Originally Posted By: Drew Snyder
Their concern is that draining the pond (to de-muck and nuke the current LMB and BG population) would cause the dam to crack or blow out. In your experience, does draining a pond cause new leaks to form or cause dams to blow out? How do you view the riskiness of draining a dammed pond?


What is the cause of this concern? If the dam is properly constructed, this will not be an issue.

Originally Posted By: Drew Snyder
Right now, we have a very boring and unbalanced LMB and BG pond, so our dream of having SMB and YP, or anything different, is very dependent on being able to drain and reset, but for now my parents are terrified that draining is going to blow out the dam.


Only way to achieve the SMB and YP is to drain the pond down and nuke it to kill the LMB and BG. Then you can start fresh with SMB and YP.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Agree with JL on both issues:

Provided the pond basin isn't allowed to remain dry for an extended period of time during dry Summer heat, you shouldn't have any concerns with liner cracks and subsequent leaks.

Cool water species fishery can be achieved in your region [I work with several clients in the NE/KS/IA/MO region with cool water species fisheries] but you'll need to drain, nuke, and begin fresh.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
Thanks for the input JL and TJ. You're confirming what I've believed, but it's nice to hear this from people with more experience than I have.

Quote:
What is the cause of this concern? If the dam is properly constructed, this will not be an issue.

I'm personally not concerned, but then again I'm not very risk averse. My parents are a lot more risk averse than I am, so while I can't speak for them directly, I think their concern is more that I'm a mad scientist and this pond revamp is getting too big too fast and that it will get away from us with catastrophic results. To their credit, I don't think they've ever heard of people around here draining their ponds, so to them I think that sounds like a dramatic unprecedented step. I know in the PB community, draining and resetting is pretty much standard routine.

Quote:
Cool water species fishery can be achieved in your region [I work with several clients in the NE/KS/IA/MO region with cool water species fisheries] but you'll need to drain, nuke, and begin fresh.

I imagined so, since we're at a similar latitude (and there are smallies in some creeks and rivers around here). A lot of my inspiration for doing a SMB/YP pond has come from reading your posts and several others' success stories here on PB. Based on what I've read here and some reports by Dr. Willis, I've been trying to beat it into my family's head that we're not going to get SMB established unless we drain and nuke.

I appreciate you both chiming in with more experienced opinions.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
cro, HC1968
Recent Posts
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by RogersTailgate - 03/29/24 05:45 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by jpsdad - 03/29/24 05:43 AM
pond experience needed
by esshup - 03/29/24 12:45 AM
New pond middle TN: establishing food chain?
by Bill Cody - 03/28/24 07:57 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FireIsHot - 03/28/24 07:33 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 06:39 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Dylanfrely - 03/28/24 05:43 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5