Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations JUVENILE SUNFISH IDENTIFICATION

Maybe you know something I don't. I need input. Being investigated for importing "Bluegills". Didn't do it. Found juveniles in my private pond, thought they were the local species...pumpkin seed (Lepomis gibbosus) . We trapped from my pond and stuck them in a tank in the barn. The State of Maine IF&W pathologist say they are bluegills. BIG ISSUE: Maine classifies Bluegills as an Invasive yet Established species. And they are illegal. State pathologist identified his sampling as such...15 taken from tank had 11 identified as bluegills, they have not told me what was in my pond. They would/will not show us the labs and wanted to rotenone my pond. I pursued wanting to see the labs. I am now being investigated for importing. We did not import anything. [B][/B]
We sought an independent lab to identify the fish. We were told that from a sampling of 15, 8 were definitely pumpkinseed, the other 7 were had variant bluegill characteristics. 50% of the fish taken from my pond were identied as pumpkinseed and the others, again, with variant bluegill characteristics. Now, I am comparing all sunnys and trying desperately to find someone who knows how to identify juvenile bluegills(Lepomis macrochirus) and juvenile pumpkinseeds((Lepomis gibbosus). I see no variation yet to distinguish identifiable characteristics, marking one species as not the other.
Hybridization of these and those makes it challenging to distinguish, so HOW do we? How are juvenile sunfish distinguishable, specifically pumpkinseeds from others?

The State of Maine is beginning to question this too. I found a question from the State of Maine inquiring at this as well on the Fishbase Forum. Good. It needs to be questioned. I have already had them steal my fish though and am having to prove a negative.They came with a search warrant and an accusation of importing and now are questioning how to identify juveniles.

Can anyone help at all? -Cynthia 207-845-3048

Cynthia,
Sorry I can't help you! I have never heard of anything so ridiculous- a search warrant to check on your fish? Do the state guys have nothing better to do up there?

Let me know if you need a place to hide out!

Brad B.

I will call you to learn more details of your situation and discuss your options.

How did your state come out to your pond in the first place? Surely they don't have the time to do random checks of ponds?

BTW, I responded to your post last night but for some reason the post is gone.

Oops my bad! I just saw my response in a different cagegory. It's a terrible thing to get old! :rolleyes:

BTW, you have a beautiful state! I flew into a camp on Nahmakanta Lake a few years ago with my dad, and we hiked and fished for brook trout in remote ponds for two weeks the last two weeks of September, several years ago.

Cynthia,

I'm sure Bill Cody will be able to offer some advice. Another possible source for information would be the University of Maine, Orono campus.

As a side note, I'm curious to know the name of the IF&W individual(s) that you are dealing with. Being a UMaine grad, I got to know a few folks in the fisheries/wildlife program that I'm sure ended up working for the State. The yearly game banquet put on by the wildlife folks was awesome.
I sure do miss that.

Russ

I called her and we discussed. I will let her provide any pertinent details or updates.

Bill,

I was going to say thanks for the update but now I see your post is gone???

I hope Cynthia reports back on the outcome.

Russ

Russ I had second thoughts and I figured it was not my business to report her personal information.

Bill,

Thanks Bill. I'm sure she'll have more to add to the story.

Russ

Hello.

I do appreciate the responses as my search for concrete conclusion continues.
It is Monday morning and we'll see what the day brings.
It is difficult to sit and wait. The IF&W has not allowed opportunity to resolve the matter whatsoever. Fact is our business plan involves the first stocking of trout the last week in November, first week in December and we need a License to Cultivate, which they have stated they will withhold until this matter is settled.We haven't heard a thing from them. So I sit and wait and continue to collect data on juvenile identification. -Cynthia

My dad told a story of passing thru Main & trying to mail a letter home. He asked a local "Do you know where the Post Office is" .. he responded "yep"

Hi Folks.
Update: The IF&W have issued summons for Importing Exotic Species. Court is Dec. 14. The IF&W's Prosecuting Attorney staes that they will drop importing charge if we allow them to poison our pond. I am having a difficult time allowing this on principal alone. What was used to get the search warrant, the warrant that produced 4 trucks, 6 wardens and 3 biologists, that gave them nothing except license to steal my research from my barn? I do hope it was substantial evidence of criminal activity acquired completely independent of the accused under investigation. An article in the newspaper doesn't cut it. The first fish acquired was done so deceptively for we were not informed that we were under investigation for criminal activity before the Investigator acquired that fish. So again, what was used to get the search warrant?
I have been speaking plainly. We have been willing from when we were informed the first time that they believe that the fish are bluegill to allow the IF&W to deal with the pond in an appropriate manner necessary. Just show the proof of the findings. They have been completely unwilling and evasive about any findings. Have they done a genetic analysis? Is any of the proof part of the "discovery"? Why are they willing to drop charges of importing if they have a case? If the fish in my pond have been positively identified as bluegill than doesn't the State have absolute jurisdiction to deal appropriately with an invasive species? Whether we object or not? (I need an answer regarding that question and I hope my lawyer will have it.) If so, why are they bargaining? The lines between private and State are grayed only when #1 the sovereign owner breaks the law and #2: if the goings on will ill effect public lands. If I am missing something here please let me know. It seems to me that they have no case to pursue regarding importing...they have no proof at all because there is none. We didn't import. There is substantial evidence to support the contrary, in our favor, including bank records. And it also seems to me that they didn't positively identify the fish or they would be here dealing with it, with the Rule of Law on their side. Not bargaining.
Separate issue: Since when is it Constitutionally legal for a State to make it illegal to grow your own food without a permit? When did eating become a privilege? And in the State of Maine, the fish are poisonous to us. So why is it a privilege issued at the discretion of some government agency to grow uncontaminated food for consumption?
We are going to the papers. We have had enough.

1st question no one ever said or asked how did the fish get there? Second what is the reason for them being illegal? If they harm or do damage to an existing fish which the state makes money off of you lose. fish is becoming big business just take a look at Fla. they spend millions on lake toho to try and help fishing money money money.....3rd why do you want them and why are you willing to take such a risk for blue gill? just a fish! Try and make a deal with them that if they poison it they pay to restock it. What do you have to lose? With that many people something is up they are not just there to kill a Saturday. Explain