Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Saugeye info

I didn't want to litter the crappie thread with saugeye discussion, but was curious for you to fill us in on your knowledge of saugeye. Examples..... Do you have experience with them feed training? Do they handle turbid water well? Do you know of anywhere for a private pond owner to get his hands on some?


Edit: title changed

Wallace Fish Farms used to list Saugeye on his web site but I see they are no longer listed. He may have sourced them as I'm sure he did not raise all his fish.

An old thread from 2009 saugeye thread

I have assisted with building these critters in Kansas since 1994. We only collect eggs, fertilize and send to hatchery. They may get a call a week or 2 later to collect fry for impoundment stocking, others are kept until fingerling size, but I have not had the opportunity to try and truly feed train any of these because in 99.9% of all stockings in KS, they are used to put the smack-down on crappie. A "tool" to manipulate the situation.
With that being said, I have played with a few in the aquarium. Side by side with walleye and I can say they do recognize and associate "you" with food. The Saugeye fingerlings would position themselves literally vertical below the water's surface. I used FHM, and at the time, never considered trying to use pellets but I can see you may have set me up for a new mission!
The few I had indoors for several months with a couple of walleye grew to 14", the walleye to 9".
As for water quality, we've found the Saugeye handle turbid water more like their daddy was used to, and these fish have mostly done quite well in areas it was bad enough we didn't have high hopes, but turned out very successful.
Bill C had referenced some material in the other thread suggesting the Saugeye are fertile, yet in the tests I'm aware of here, there has not been male spermatozoa found "active". Yes, Females producing eggs can be fertilized by male WAE, but again, we don't stock saugeye where WAE recruit at all, and in captive genetic studies the G1 from walleye + sauger female X walleye male reverts to near pure walleye, but even that is rare.
Nebraska tried a few impoundments with Saugeye and part of the reason they haven't increased the size of that program is the simple fact they can't produce enough walleye fry/fingerlings for supplemental stockings within the state to handle stocking requests. Kansas is very similar, as we share WAE/SAE with them.
Honestly, I feel this fish is a perfect fit for ponds because they tend to do well in tight spaces, they continue to feed in total darkness-which gives one more control when using this as a tool controlling numbers of over-abundant species that other predators fail to efficiently control, and they seem to stay more active in warmer environments.
As for availability of this fish, I do have one contact that is raising every year and does sell to the public in low numbers and I ask that you allow me to contact him and ask his permission to make that a more public knowledge. His fish are checked yearly, he is licensed, but I want to make sure he's ok with that as I respect his wishes to remain low-key.
Mark Harbin, east of Wichita has had some saugeye available in years past, but not every year.
Not sure I have answered your questions, I hope this helps but I'm open to share any data I have on this!

Wow, and I didn’t think I could be any more excited about these than I already am. Thanks so much for the info! It sounds like saugeye could be a great ‘pond’ alternative to walleye or even perch to some extent.

I may change the title of this to attract others that may be interested in adding or absorbing saugeye information.

Yeah Corey, you need these in the BC fishery ASAP.

I’ll work on it!! Super excited.

Y'all have me wondering, since they're hybrid and sterile, and obviously thrive in cooler water, if they would be a good winter stocker (in limited numbers) to help with crowd control when all the other predators slow down. I doubt they'd survive the summers down here, even with aeration.

Saugeye handle low D.O. unlike sauger. Walleye pure strain handle low D.O. better than many species but saugeye handle the warmer temps better. I know they'll maintain in mid to upper 80's without issue.

I may have to give that some serious thought. I love walleye fillets, and I'm sure saugeye are very similar.

Most folks can't tell the fish itself apart from a walleye, the fillets are no different.
Most will say the molting between the dorsal spines give them away but we've found years where none of a certain year class have the molting. The best way to confirm is the smoothness (WAE)or roughness (SAE) of the cheek patch scales.

I've done a little searching regarding stocking of Saugeye in Louisiana. The furthest south I've found any information on them is around Abilene, Tx. There's no information pertaining to Saugeye in Louisiana. Apparently I'm the only one around here who's given it any consideration. Chances are, La laws being what they are, they probably wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they are sterile.

Great info guys. Pretty rare for this forum to have a species that hasn't had their impact on a pond be documented thoroughly. Hopefully we can change that over the next few years.

Saugeye - It appears one private person grows them. Problem. How does one get them?

Sorry for the question;

Since Walleye have little to no success of spawning in ponds (per previous Pond Boss strings), and Saugeye are basically sterile, why bother with Saugeye at all? Walleye are much easier to get for stocking ponds - at least in the MW and NE.

What is the benefit if both of them don't spawn? Does one MEASURABLY feed differently than another? Is one more hardy than the other? Availability is worse and cost is probably higher with the Saugeye (guess).

I am curious if saugeye would help to control small largemouth bass. Overpopulation of bass is always a constant battle in a pond environment. Also curious if saugeye could survive in north Mississippi?

Jeff, this appears to be one advantage from above. Better fit for specific conditions.

Well I think there are a lot of questions that we would all like to have answered for a novice pond owner. Over the years I’ve read that saugeye handle turbid water better and feed train better than walleye. Those two things alone would make them much more valuable for my situation. It has also been surmised that they do better in smaller environments and in warmer water than walleye. My greatest interest is in how they will grow in a cage and if I can feed train them. So those are things I’d like to observe. It’s one of the few species that hasn’t been dealt with a lot in small ponds so i hope to find something they can contribute, or a niche they can fill that other fish can’t.

I actually caught a saugeye when I lived in Ohio. Decent fighter, though not to be compared with a HSB. Absolutely delicious.

Would love to find out if my BOW could sustain a small population.

My main interest is in crowd control during the colder months, when everything else's feeding requirements slow down. Being they're sterile I'll know how many are there and can try to fish them out come spring.

Kind of reverse psychology when thinking about stocking tilapia. Instead of restocking TP every spring for forage, which I don't need, I'd be stocking a temporary predator in the fall, which may or may not survive the summer, but still offer excellent table fare, and still feed heavy on those YOY and late spawn fry. My understanding is they tend to feed a lot at night, so shorter days of light should be a non-issue. Come spring they should be big enough to harvest.

Edit: Anyone know what the gape on a 12" Saugeye is??

SAE Grow at nearly twice the rate of WAE to year 2.
SAE are not as picky when it comes to forage and are an EXCELLENT tool to control a less than desirable shaped BG or BCP.
SAE are very productive in turbid waters that inhibit even average WAE growth.
SAE outfight the WAE 2 to 1, yet the same on the table/frying pan.
Bill hits on the main limiting factor on this species..availability.

Mike, I don't have a gape chart but I can tell you 11-12" SAE will CLEAN HOUSE on 2.5-3" crappie.

Snipe, I'm not doubting your accuracy on that info but was curious as to if you have links to any of the above info or if that is all just first hand info on your part. I find this all very fascinating. With availability it seems like this could be an excellent pond management fish.

Edit: I'd love to study their impact on common carp!

And I'm going to make that happen for a few of you guys, it's just not going to be in big numbers..
I've always thought it would be feasible for a private hatchery that rears their own walleye stock to obtain some Sauger males and have a continued SAE supply.
Yes, it requires space for the male Sauger and space for SAE only fry, but I do believe this fish has just not been around long enough for it to take off in the private sector. I hope that changes..

Nothing is published from KS on this.. I have worked with the Biologist that I believe has more experience with this fish than anyone. He has a compilation of data for dept use but we don't get to read that in public fora.. But I have access to that data, and I've seen it in action, first-hand. I've been able to work side by side to see the results for just over 20 years now-on the SAE program.
I need to take the time and see if my Bio will set down with me and give me some specifics I can share on data points on this. He'll be here on Thursday for a community lake project I'm involved with and I'll see what I can drag out of him as far as any help with other sources. If we could get at least enough to do 3-4 private pond situations, the data may be enough to promote some individuals raising other fish to pursue the Saugeye. Only a thought, as I know my numbers will be limited but enough for a couple of guys to try out.

I don't "THINK" I have many crappie in my little mutt pond, I've only caught two. One 6" in a trap, the other was 11" on rod. My biggest concern is that stockers too large would have a detrimental impact on my more mature BG if there aren't enough appropriate sized crappie. But it's the smaller panfish I want them to target anyway. I'm thinking 12-14" may be the target size for removal, much like LMB.

It sounds like the gape of SAE may be very comparable to that of LMB if 11-12" SAE target 2.5-3" crappie, which would be roughly 1/3 their size.

Walleye 12" long has a gape 34-36mm 1.3"-1.4". Same length saugeye would have a very similar gape. I had saugeye(SE one stocking) in my main pond for around 8 years then started introducing walleye(WE) because could not find saugeye(SE).
Saugeye definitely have promise as a pond fish. But they are only as good as just discussion if they are not available or very difficult to obtain. They are definitely not as easy as HBG to produce.

Maybe of interest....

Snipe,

Any idea what the stocking rate for SAE per surface acre would be? My puddle is roughly 1 ac/ft. Not much surface area(60'x60') but it's got depth(11'at full pool).

Mike - What other fish are in the pond? Other fish species and their approximate density or percentages will influence supplemental stocking
You say roughly 1 ac and then surface area 60'X60'. 60x60 is 0.08 acre. I'm confused.
Okay ---- I see my error I misread 1acft as 1 ac. dah.

An acre-ft is 325851 gallons

Mike, there is so many variables to consider on something like this.
They are mainly used here for controlling crappie-but will eat other species...readily. I would strongly error on the light side if it were mine. Predation on the most abundant species present will likely be the result with consideration of size.
This would be a WAG not knowing your system but 5-6 in a pond the size of yours would be as high as I would feel comfortable with not knowing for sure what your goal is.
This is somewhat uncharted area here, so I'm hesitant to say any more would be "ok".

Hey Snipe,
The only definitive number I can give you on any species swimming in the pond are the LMB, which is 3. I bucket stocked them after the spawn from local water at 12-13". The rest is purely speculative, since I only stocked a few dozen (combined) BG, WM,and RES. BG are definitely the most populous. I wouldn't be surprised if their numbers were in the 1000's, with the vast majority being less than 3". Next would be GSF with numbers possibly being near 1000 ranging from 9" (very few) down to 1". My BH population is minimal, maybe 50 tops as they didn't fare well with their spawn. Never saw a single fry. While crappie are present, I've only caught two so far. The remainder are RES, WM and a sampling of longear.

I want this to be a panfish pond with quality, but not necessarily trophy, class fish. The bass, greenies and bullhead do a decent job of predation on the BG during warm months, but since they're warm water friendly, they're not hitting the small BG they way I want them to now that it's cooled off.

The SAE, if my thinking is correct, would benefit greatly during these colder periods and help keep the balance more in check, and give my bigger panfish better opportunity to get bigger.

I was considering only 6 or so, no more than 12, but getting the size fish I would need to stock in the fall (6-8") may be problematic. I have no idea when these fish spawn or how fast they grow in the first year, but with LMB pushing 14" in residence, predation on the SAE needs to be considered as well. The bass would be the only serious threat to the SAE, tho.

Please feel free to correct my thinking if I'm off base. I've been known to get a little OCD at times.

I've personally never tried this but I would consider trying to ship a handful of fry if you would be interested in building a holding pen/cage? Getting 6-8" fish to your location would be a logistical nightmare..
OR.. I could grow some fry to 2-3" and try and ship. You would still need a grow out cage of no larger than 1/4" mesh. Wow. This would be a heck of an experiment.
I'm still waiting on a call from my bud on the fingerlings, maybe I could try to ship a few of those.
Before we go too crazy here I want to get a better idea of the number I will-for sure-have to play with.
I think you more than likely have the forage base to handle a few, sounds like, and I'm guessing in your climate, if the temps are truly doable, they'd be 12-14" by Late November.
The farthest south population I know of that so far has been successful is near Abilene, TX.
I'll do some thinking about how we could make that work!

Abilene is as far south as I've ever heard of them as well.

Building a grow out pen is doable. It's the water temps that would concern me at the time the fry would have to be kept in it. Even now, my surface temps are around 60*, and probably wont get much below 55* before they'll start climbing. Last year it got up to 99* before I put aeration in. That cooled the surface off, but it also warmed the bottom as well, and was running strictly at night.

I'd hate to go thru all the effort just to lose them to the heat.

This is my WAG but I wonder if the fry would handle the high water temps and then you'd lose the fish as they got older. I'm kind of experimenting with the same issues here regarding tiger muskie, and from what I can tell I think I'll be able to get 2-3 seasons out of them and then lose them due to water temps as they get bigger. I believe their DO demand increases as they get older and the larger fish tend to seek cool water refuge with high DO. Just my thoughts.

WOW!!! 99 degs??!!
I know we've seen the upper 80's for short periods without morts but I'm not sure they'd go very far with that kind of surface temps..
I'm not sure they'd make the first summer?? Humm...

I had to take some serious emergency steps because I didn't have aeration installed yet. Backed my gatortail mud motor into the pond and fired it up to circulate the water. It did a fantastic job of creating a good current around the pond and lowering the surface temp back into the high 80s in no time.

I haven't had those kind of surface temps since I installed my system, but I only see a variance of about 3 degrees from top to bottom now with no thermocline. I only have to run the pump about 6 hours to get a complete turnover so I set it up to run from 2-8am when it gets really hot outside.

I would not say that walleye do not reproduce in ponds. I have seen it my self in Ontario but if there are any other fish present the walleye fry will be the first to be eaten.

Perch and Bass can clean up allot of young walleye in no time but so can chub and shiners.

I would say that their young are easy to control not that they will not reproduce.

Cheers Don.

I agree with Dono, walleye will spawn and eggs hatch in ponds that have the best conditions for walleye reproduction. This means low turbidity, low silt, low biochemical oxygen demand(BOD) water, usually coarse rocky shoreline, good wind exposure so wave action mixes fresh oxygenated water into the shoreline rock areas and relatively low numbers of egg eating crayfish, panfish, & large minnows. Then if any eggs hatch they as 3/8" feeble swimming, long, slivers have to have enough proper sized zooplankton to eat and keep from getting eaten by small fish. The the next sizes of invertebrates have to be available to feed the growing post-larvae, then fingerlings who then need small newly hatched fish fry as food.