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Based on the info mining I've done here it looks like I need to stock about 30# of TP into an established LMB, Crappie and BG pond to add forage AND to educe FA as well as other attached aquatic plants.

Trying to locate a seller of Blue TP as the place I used last year was about $4/fish and only 5-6"

When is the earliest one 'should' stock TP in a pond? Again it in Mid-East OH.

Thanks,
Stressless

Last edited by Stressless; 12/14/18 08:31 AM.

8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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I used to live in SW Ohio. Mid May would be my guess for stocking TP in your location, and they would likely perish in late Oct to early November.

Down here, we put them in around early April most years and they last until late Nov to early Dec, depending on the weather.

Last edited by anthropic; 12/09/18 12:57 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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I have stocked Tilapia from Jones Fish every year since 2013. They will stock them 1) after they receive their supplies from "down South" and 2) when they schedule a truck through your area (most likely it would be the same trip as mine). Jones' Tilapia delivery to me has always been in the last 10 days of May. Sometimes I wish they came sooner, but given the variations in Ohio Springs, that is honestly as soon as water temps high enough to ensure survival every year.

If you are interested, pricing is as advertised. In 18 years of getting fish from them, the fish always come healthy and as described wrt size.


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Poundage will depend on how much algae / finely divided submerged vegetation you have which does involve acreage. This will determine how quickly the TP get the algae under control. Keep in mind that Jones tries for 6 TP per pound which includes individuals in the 3.5" to 6" range. I know their current supplier. Larger ones mostly males smaller ones mostly females. Larger bass of 14"-17" will get some of the smaller individuals so in reality you may not have 30# that actually survive. Check with Fender's in Baltic-Charm who I am told now sell TP.

I and others have found that it is very helpful if you can get a good portion of the algae removed / controlled before TP are added.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/09/18 08:35 PM.

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Excellent feedback - I'll be looking them up today.


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody

...
I and others have found that it is very helpful if you can get a good portion of the algae removed / controlled before TP are added.


Bill - so the reason I've read to get them to to not add chems to control the FA - but you state to do that prior to adding TP? I guess I'm not tracking /asking for clarification. Thank you for helping.

Best,
Stressless


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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I think Bill is talking about a situation where FA is totally out of control, dominating the pond. If it is just a nuisance in selected areas, TP should be able to handle it.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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The more FA that you can remove before adding TP the easier and quicker the fish get it under control. In smaller ponds removal can be physical or manual - netting or dragging out masses of algae. Eco-Friendly chemical algae control can be achieved by proper use of peroxygen based algacides (granular hydrogen peroxide) such as Green Clean Pro or Phycomycin.

The more FA present the more fish you need to add for timely effective control. TP controlling algae is relative. Each fish can only eat so much algae, so the more algae a pond has, generally either you need more fish, or wait longer to see noticeably less FA. Also when a pond has lots of bass (all sizes) fewer baby TP survive and thus less algae is eaten. In my experience the larger fish eat the bulk of the older fibrous FA and the young ones eat primarily new young algae growth as the old stringy FA is consumed. Usually when a pond has a 'strong' bass population more TP are needed due to fewer surviving offspring TP and those smallest stocker TP that get eaten by the largest LMbass.

After you see the results of the first summer of TP algae control efforts, it gives you a much better idea of how many TP to stock in your unique algae growth pond for next year depending on amount of algae present. Stock TP numbers based on the amount of algae present and the success of control you observed the previous year. It is important to visually assess the amount of algae present at time of stocking so you can evaluate TP results and then gauge the numbers to add next year.

NOTE: Here are some TP stocking comments from PB forum Member "esshup" from Hoosier Pond Pros. Keep in mind that he often stocks single sex TP (males) which means very little if any offspring are produced. Thus he suggests rates around 40Lb/ac. Keep in mind that every pond is different so good observations of results and stocking adjustments are important for best use of TP.
Quote:
""In my stocking of Tilapia over the years I have found a few things to be universally true.
Killing the floating and submersed FA before stocking Tilapia is necessary if you don’t want floating FA on the pond post stocking (see exceptions below).

Stocking less than 40# per surface acre in a typical predator heavy pond will require FA control by chemical means at least once a month.
Stocking Tilapia at a smaller size that can be eaten by the predators in the pond is a recipe for failure
Stocking Tilapia of advanced sizes (by themselves) has about a 50% success rate for control enough not to require chemical treatment (i.e. 1#+ fish)
Stocking Tilapia at 40# per surface acre in conjunction with 10 TGC per acre and dyeing the pond will result in 90+% control of the FA and rooted plants.

Stocking Tilapia at less than 40# per surface acre (but this is Rex’s stressed fish) results in having to treat the ponds every 3 weeks or so for FA as if they were not stocked at all.
Stocking Tilapia in the 6”-9” size range at the rate of 40# per surface acre without dye and TGC results in FA control about 70%-80% of the time.""


Note esshup above says his opinions are for bass 'heavy' ponds. I often suggest for light recreation and swimming ponds to remove lots of bass before stocking lower densities of TP. Fewer LMB results in eating fewer of the important algae eating TP.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/14/18 09:32 PM.

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Bob Lusk mentioned another advantage of TP, they help BG. First by reducing LMB pressure on them, second by BG consumption of YOY TP. Bob noticed that lakes with stocked TP had better BG the next year than those that didn't.

I stocked 20# TP per acre in my BOW this year and had great results, better than when I stocked fewer. This despite the fact that I don't have much in the way of FA.

Last edited by anthropic; 12/14/18 10:38 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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OK, I'm tracking again, thanks for taking the the time and putting this info out there. The pond in question is not the swimming hole, and we've never pulled FA or chem treated it. I was looking for a no-chem way to add a forage base and treat the light- mild FA that occurs on the pond. I would say the underwater attached weeds are 7/10 of the weed base.

SO the FA isn't "Bad" enough to warrant treating with chems and could be controlled with TP. My estimate is the pond, 1.25 acre 15' might be better served adding 3500-4000 bullhead minnows $350-400 there is plenty of cover, as they may last beyond a year and be a forage base for BG, CP, LMB all in that pond currently.

TP are enticing but seem cost prohibitive on a yearly basis... going a bit light at 25# that's $475 / year for TP. have ou heard of Bullheads reproducing past the stocking year - creating a self sustaining population? I do not want to get into feed, feeders etc, I am trying to introduce a organic, lowest touch maintenance way to bump the biomass up in the ponds and create additional forage. TP ,if costs were better seem like the way to go.

Thanks and please bear this NEWBI//


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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Beautiful pic! Fall in Ohio is gorgeous.

As for TP, you are quite right that they would have to be restocked yearly if you have enough FA to be an issue every year. However, if you want a one time cleanup followed by some effort to reduce fertility, TP might be worth the expense.

No chemicals needed, plus the TP convert useless FA into pounds of fish that either you can eat or your BG, CC, and LMB eat. TP spawn like crazy and their young really help grow BG.

I went with 20# TP per acre this year and was really pleased with results. Just now they finished dying due to cold.

Last edited by anthropic; 12/15/18 12:20 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Quote:
better served adding 3500-4000 bullhead minnows $350-400 there is plenty of cover,


Based on my assumption you are talking about fathead minnows that could be called bullhead or bull minnows by Zetts fish farm. True bull minnows are a form of topminnow (Fundulus grandis), also known as gulf killifish, mudminnows, mudfish. Using the term bullheads could confuse PBoss readers who would think these are "bullhead catfish" aka black, brown, and yellow bullheads. For fatheads or "bull topminnow" to have a low breeding population and survive long term in a naturalized pond there needs to be abundant submerged vegetation. Abundant as in almost too much vegetation to easily and commonly fish from shore. Usually manmade and tree branch cover as fish structure is not abundant enough and dense enough as good cover protection for fatheads(FHM) and most minnow species. If you are looking for a soft fin forage fish that is more likely to survive with some annual breeders in your ponds, consider using the forage fish money budget by adding adult golden shiners (3"-5").

Important note. If you want to use tilapia to provide good forage for the predators then make sure the TP are mixed sex and not primarily male fish. Some TP sellers provide food fish grown tilapia that are almost exclusively males who grow faster and larger than the female TP. Thus with all male TP one gets no offspring.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/15/18 11:37 AM.

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Great points, Bill. Count me as one of the confused about bullhead minnows, you explained well. And I didn't know that some TP growers went male heavy, which really defeats much of the purpose in terms of forage for other fish.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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The two Tilapia aquaculture farms I know about both use (virtually) male-only Tilapia for food fish production. Assuming this is an industry-wide practice, there would be a huge, periodic but year round market for male-only Tilapia fry.


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SARC - Fact Sheet

In
monosex growout ponds under
good temperature regimes, males
generally reach a weight of 1/2
pound (200 + grams) in 3 to 4
months, 1 pound (400 + grams) in
5 to 6 months, and 1.5 pounds (700
grams) in 8 to 9 months. To produce
1-pound (400- to 500-gram) fish,
common practice is to stock 6,000 to
8,000 males per acre in static water
ponds with aeration or 20,000 to
28,000 males per acre where 20 percent
daily water exchange is economically
practical. After 6 months
of feeding with good quality feeds,
such ponds can produce 5,000 to
7,000 pounds per acre and 18,000 to
20,000 pounds per acre, respectively
















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Can I stock TL in my southern Indiana pond for helping algae control and if so when should I stock them and where do I get them at

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The info posted on Tilapia is for growing food fish, NOT for algae control.

For food fish, no females are wanted, For Algae control and forage production, females are what are wanted! You will be wasting your money stocking predominantly male tilapia. I supply/stock mixed sex pure strain Blue Tilapia in ponds each spring. In Indiana, you can safely stock (a minimum of 40 pounds per acre) mixed sex Blues when water temps hit 62 degrees or higher at a 4 foot depth for 4 straight days....usually in early/mid May. Any other species or hybrid of tilapia needs 70+ degree water to be stocked...all other Tilapia suppliers I know sell male, or hybrid tilapia which gives you far less bang for the buck....Male only stockings would need 500 pounds or more per acre to control algae, and of course, you get no forage production for your other fish species...



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Originally Posted By: Jack Hamilton
Can I stock TL in my southern Indiana pond for helping algae control and if so when should I stock them and where do I get them at


Absolutely! Indiana allows Tilapia and no permits are required....see my post above on whe you can stock safely...



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Originally Posted By: Stressless
OK, I'm tracking again, thanks for taking the the time and putting this info out there. The pond in question is not the swimming hole, and we've never pulled FA or chem treated it. I was looking for a no-chem way to add a forage base and treat the light- mild FA that occurs on the pond. I would say the underwater attached weeds are 7/10 of the weed base.

SO the FA isn't "Bad" enough to warrant treating with chems and could be controlled with TP. My estimate is the pond, 1.25 acre 15' might be better served adding 3500-4000 bullhead minnows $350-400 there is plenty of cover, as they may last beyond a year and be a forage base for BG, CP, LMB all in that pond currently.

TP are enticing but seem cost prohibitive on a yearly basis... going a bit light at 25# that's $475 / year for TP. have ou heard of Bullheads reproducing past the stocking year - creating a self sustaining population? I do not want to get into feed, feeders etc, I am trying to introduce a organic, lowest touch maintenance way to bump the biomass up in the ponds and create additional forage. TP ,if costs were better seem like the way to go.

Thanks and please bear this NEWBI//



Stressless, I understand your questions on Tilapia and looking for a sustainable forage species. Minnows, even Golden Shiners will only feed small fish, and not grow you many over 1 pound...the minnows are just too small. Tilapia ( I only supply/stock the coldest tolerant pure strain Blue Tilapia) will produce 100's of pounds of forage fish annually, plus Tilapia become the primary forage species, so after the fall die-off, you have far more BG to supply fall/winter forage. To get the equal amount of forage from a minnow versus Tilapia, you'd have to spend several thousands of dollars compared to under $1000.00 (corrected by BC) for tilapia annually....With Tilapia, you also get detritus (muck) reduction if stocked properly...There are many benefits with Tilapia....FWIW, all mixed sex suppliers in Ohio use hybrid or mostly male "food fish"....They get stocked later in the spring, die earlier in the fall, and produce less offspring than pure blues.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/27/18 10:10 AM. Reason: Corrected dollar amount as per below


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You da Man, Rex.


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Rainman,

Update: Had a great chat with Rex// he has a different stocking then on his websight// The numbers below are now correct.

OK - to clear up my post above and get good #'s for folks that might reference this thread could you answer my thoughts and what I think is correct from your TP websight? This is to get a good baseline for me as I would really really like to stock TP but am not either finding the right info or I maybe confused on the algorithm of stocking and pricing.

I'll use the two ponds that I would like to stock this spring as examples. (I'm a pond maintenance newbie and just trying to get clear info)

pond1 = Long Pond, 2.5 acre, 20', static (no water in/out flow) stripmine pond, good pH with aquatic submerged weed growth, minimal FA, LOTS of debris and submerged structure, 30 3-4" CC stocked last year, LMB and BG perpetual population. Largest LMB to date 7.5#

pond2 = Figure8 Pond, 1.25 acre, 15', static (no water in/out flow) stripmine pond, Great pH with LOTS of submerged weed growth, lots of FA, Lots of debris and submerged structure, Stocked twenty=20 TP last year 5 large males and 15 smaller females (I think, I didn't lift any skirts LoL) - no TP seen in Oct-Nov cool down. LMB and BG perpetual population.

The stocking numbers are from other posts on TP here at pondboss, algae and forage are my target goals:
---- Brood stock is what goes into the ponds 6-9" majority

pond1 = 30#'s per acre * 2.5 acre = 75#'s of TP
pond2 = 30#'s per acre * 1.25 acre = 37#'s of TP

pond1 75# of TP @ $17/# = $1275

pond2 37# of TP @ $17/# = $629

Plus shipping...$350

The below is a mistake from his reply - he meant $1,000.00
Quote:
Please advise where / how I messed up as I would really like to stock TP at your stated 'under $100 annually'

"To get the equal amount of forage from a minnow versus Tilapia, you'd have to spend several thousands of dollars compared to under 100 for tilapia annually...."


Last edited by Stressless; 12/26/18 06:46 PM.

8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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Thank you very much Bill, Correct = FHM, a some others called them Bullheads which I got concerned about as I did not want bullhead catfish. I had to go back to the folks at Fenders and get the actual name of the minnow they sold me. FHM.

My ponds have beaver feed stations, trees that have fallen in, cypress with the and submerged vegetation. two of the ponds more then others. I'm not going to pellet feed "many" reasons so I'm trying to plumb the knowledge and experience base and base the forage increase on the best, i.e., highest return for $, and longest lasting specie(s).

From what I've learned and read it appears my investment route of FHM might not be the best bet... Rex certainly was not a fan in my conversation with him.

What amount per acre and when is the prime stocking time in Mid-Ohio for adult golden shiners? Also would anyone have a distributor / hatchery for GS? My experience with shiners is they are very O2 Fragile and don't travel well (bait) ...

Thanks and I'll try and get some more pics of the ponds up soon.

Merry Christmas to all - I am extremely glad to have found this site and the good dialogue on-going.


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
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My comment on $100 worth of Tilapia will produce more forage and weight gain than $1000's in Fathead minnows was poorly written....my apologies for causing you to think there was a fire sale on TP...lol

10 pounds of Tilapia can produce hundreds of pounds of forage in a season, where 100 pounds of fatheads would struggle to double the stocked weight in a season (in a predator stocked pond)

Last edited by Rainman; 12/27/18 10:20 AM.


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Bringing this one back - TP are being stocked today in OH.

Over the last two years I've been modifying stocking plans for forage and to add a predator. FHM and GS. This year I'm finally putting in TP. I'm only putting them in long pond this year, to obverse and then make a call if both ponds get TP next year.

My goals haven't changed, want a forage base, do not want pellets. I decided to go FHM and GS in 2019 and put them in all three ponds.

RES 50/acre
YP 100/acre
FHM @ 10#/acre
GS @ 10#/acre

I also Stocked walleye in the two larger ponds @ 10/Acre in Nov 19

After watching the ponds for the last year: I upped the forage and will add TP this spring to long pond.

YP 100/acre
FMH @ 15#/acre
GS @ 12#/acre
TP @12.5#acre


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'

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