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#498519 - 11/08/18 02:04 PM Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1180
Loc: Deep East Texas
I asked this on the tailend of another thread but...Is ag lime the same as 6-12 inch limestone rock only crushed?? If not what is the difference??
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#498520 - 11/08/18 02:25 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5426
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes.

In fact, if they sell more lime than they planned and have no more rock mined to process, they may take a pile of rock size they have excess of and run it through the grinder again to make lime.

The lime is tested and certified for calcium carbonate content (the effectiveness of acid neutriliazation) and finess (speed and effectiveness). The other rock isn't.
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#498523 - 11/08/18 03:06 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1180
Loc: Deep East Texas
Thanks for clearing that up for me John!!
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#498531 - 11/08/18 05:32 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5426
Loc: SE Kansas
Something I am unsure of but I would speculate is that if a quarry has varying quality of limestone to process I would assume they would choose the best or highest calcium portion to process into lime. But I do know a quarry that will rerun rock if they need more lime.

One series of quarrys in this area are owned by the same company. They will move the mining and processing equipment to one location and run there for as long as they need to stockpile various grades and sizes of rock and lime. Then move the equipment to another quarry and repeat. So sometimes their estimates of how much of each product is in error and they might run out of one particular product. The equipment goes by our house when they move once in a while.
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#498548 - 11/08/18 09:25 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1752
Loc: East Texas, USA
James, I'm clearly no expert on lime. However, I believe that large rocks of limestone won't have much effect on the pH and total alkalinity of your BOW. For that you will need crushed ag lime.
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#498551 - 11/08/18 10:41 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: anthropic]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5426
Loc: SE Kansas
Pound for pound that is true.

Any area of the pond that is totally covered in rock rather than a clay or dirt bottom is going to act like a rock quarry though. For example in my small forage pond I nearly completely lined it with crushed rock. The water is mostly exposed to the limestone rock instead of the acid soil. So the pond acts more like a quarry pond than a dirt pond.

But you are correct, if you are using it for pH control and only want to haul in the minimum number of tons to do the job, large rocks are definitely not the way to go.

I forget what the particle size is for soil amendment, but above a certain size if it is in lime it is not even considered in the effective calcium chloride equivalent. Very fine grind lime amends the soil (or water) rapidly but does not have as long lasting effects (liquid lime fits this bill also). Slightly coarser grind does not change the pH as fast but last longer ( we figure about 6-8 years between liming fields). Above a certain particle size it is considered to have no effect as far as a pH amendment goes.


Edited by snrub (11/08/18 10:43 PM)
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#498556 - 11/09/18 07:17 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1180
Loc: Deep East Texas
I guess I don't need limestone rocks then just to fill the ravine and stop erosion. What other large rock should I consider economically speaking? I have "blue" rock or "green" rock quarrys all around me in east Texas. It is some type of conglomerant rock. They use it for driveways all around here. Can normally get it in any size I want.
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#498563 - 11/09/18 02:09 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5426
Loc: SE Kansas
For your use any ole rock would do as long as it doesn't have negative properties.

Concerning lime, consider a 6" diameter solid limestone rock dropped in a bucket of water. Its ability to ammend the water consists of the total surface area measured on the face of the rock.

Now consider that same rock but run through a crusher then a hammer mill grinding into the consistancy of talcum powder. Now dump it into the bucket and consider the many thousands or millions of times surface area of the limestone are exposed to the water.

It is all about the purity of the rock and its surface area exposed to the water. Those two properties give it the ability to alter pH. The finer the grind the more surface area. Big rocks have relatively little surface area.


Edited by snrub (11/09/18 02:14 PM)
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#498564 - 11/09/18 02:45 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1180
Loc: Deep East Texas
Thanks John and everyone else. I now have a path to what I want to do and it won't be near as expensive as I thought!!
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Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.

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#498589 - 11/10/18 09:51 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2740
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Flame, I have been paying $900 +- for a tractor trailer load or about 40,000 lbs of medium sized limestone rock. This is in the 2 to 4" size rock. Been using it to rock a road on the farm. Road was in bad shape due to erosion. I get it out of Marshall Texas so I hauling it around 12 miles or so.
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#498590 - 11/10/18 10:01 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: TGW1]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2689
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
We get 20-23 tons in a bell dump for 500$ of 1-2 with fines from aroun here


Edited by Pat Williamson (11/10/18 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Wrong number entered

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#498614 - 11/11/18 08:33 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 927
Loc: Louisiana
If I put that much limestone in my pond, I wouldn't have a pond. It'd be a rockpile!!! LOL
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#498615 - 11/11/18 09:57 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Mike Whatley]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2689
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Lol that is roadbase material. Lime for the ponds we get 6 tons at a time delivered and spread for around $365

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#498616 - 11/11/18 10:49 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 927
Loc: Louisiana
I need to add another 500# to mine. I've yet to get my hardness up where it needs to be. Alk is fine, but could be better, but my hardness is crap.
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.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#498617 - 11/11/18 11:00 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Mike Whatley]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2689
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Doesn’t gypsum raise hardness?

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#498622 - 11/11/18 03:22 PM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 927
Loc: Louisiana
Yes, gypsum does increase hardness. I can get it at the local TSC for a relatively decent price, but thru all my searching, I've yet to find any information on how much is needed. I can add a little at a time, but don't want to overdo it, as with most treatments, results are usually time delayed. Also need to know if I'd need to do anything else in conjunction with it, like you would with an alum treatment.


Edited by Mike Whatley (11/11/18 03:24 PM)
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#498633 - 11/12/18 12:47 AM Re: Is AG lime just crushed limestone rock [Re: Flame]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
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I believe Ag Lime has to have 95+% pass through a #60 mesh screen. Each state also has a legal minimum on the calcium content the Limestone must contain to be legally called Ag Lime. If a quarry does not supply Ag Lime, it is ONLY because their rock is too low on calcium content.

Snrub is spot on that the finer the grind, the better it amends soils and water
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