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#498529 - 11/08/18 04:53 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Eric, Thanks for all the information you provide here. So, I got to thinking about it all since I am new to having feed trained lmb in the pond. First off these lmb were provided by Todd Overton from his fish located in Northern Okla. I think they came from a pond of his there. He sold them as a two and a half pond lmb and for the most part they were that size with some of them being a bit larger. We did fin clip them and took out the ones I thought were males based on their size and shape (skinnier and smaller). All in all, I was well pleased with them when he delivered them to the pond. And so I have been sampling some of them through fishing, using plastics along with some double willow leaf spinner baits. I'm a little mentally slow sometimes (DUH !) but since I have caught them on spinners they must be feeding on forage fish or a spinner bait would not attract them. Or at least that is my thinking now. And I have seen some really good RW's and watch these fish when they are hand feed. Last week my water temps were 73 at the surface and 70 at 4 foot deep. I am sure that temp has dropped some in the last couple of days with cooler days along with some rain. I plan to continue to feed them but I may need to get them to change their feeding times some. Or locate and spend the money for a feeder that will throw the Aquamx lmb feed.


Edited by TGW1 (11/08/18 04:56 PM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#498558 - 11/09/18 07:45 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: ewest]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Good info!
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#498562 - 11/09/18 10:08 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
bassmaster61 Offline


Registered: 06/18/15
Posts: 147
Loc: St. Louis, MO/West Central Ill...
I will say that our feed trained LMB have taken our lures to some extent this last season. They were stocked into our pond as 1-1.25 lb. fish in early June 2017. We have intentionally tried to not fish around the feeder area (we will starting next season) but this is in a small 1.6 acre BOW so I would assume the fish do get around to other parts of the pond as well.

We had no trouble meeting our maintenance harvest target of 32 LMB under 14" in length during the 2018 season. At the time they were stocked, all fish were 14" or slightly larger so we know that none of the stocker LMB were harvested. Many of the fish hanging around the feeder appear to be in excess of 3 lbs. We caught probably 4 fish in the 3+ lb. size range from the pond this year. Originally 55 were stocked into the existing LMB population in this 70 year old pond. Prior to stocking, this pond's LMB population was stunted so we harvested 60 fish or approximately 40 per surface acre.

I have only been feeding a total of 2 lbs. of pellets each day (1 lb. twice each day) hoping these stockers would also learn to eat natural forage. We also stocked in 400 adult native northern feed trained BG (5"-7") at the same time as the LMB.

Eric's info is kind of a bummer since the studies show that stockers are not very good at getting on natural forage. We will see what happens in our pond. Feeding fish is an experiment for us and if we start catching a decent number of large stockers on standard tackle next year I will consider it a success. But just in case, I am tying a few flies that look like Aquamax MVP pellets.....BM61.



Edited by bassmaster61 (11/09/18 02:33 PM)
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#498565 - 11/09/18 05:02 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: bassmaster61]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Well, if you aren't feeding very heavily and the LMB are gaining weight rapidly, they must be eating some natural forage.
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#498648 - 11/12/18 01:15 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: jpsdad]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Originally Posted By: jpsdad
I was nodding my head at everything ... until you closed with this.

Originally Posted By: ewest

. . . but with a small (low %)amount of supplemental feeding to insure enough nutrition.


This would seem to imply that fish can't get enough nutrition without supplemental feeding.. . a notion I would certainly disagree with and that is completely unsupported by science. For one thing one can certainly imagine scenarios where the amount of supplemental feeding you might recommend is insufficient to ensure enough nutrition. Under such a scenario, we can all agree that it isn't the feed's fault. There's just too many fish.

If this is true when artificial feeds are insufficient then it is equally true when natural foods are insufficient.

It has been long known that the ultimate size of fish is independent of fertility. A pond which supports 150 lbs/acre standing weights can produce fish of equal size to a pond that supports 500 lbs/acre standing weight. I know you know this Eric but based on some things I've seen written here, some certainly don't.

One should feed to have more fish ... not bigger fish. If one wants bigger fish the results of feeding will only meet that goal in the short term.



Not disagreeing just adding clarity. The biggest problem encountered by most ponds (not all)is lack of adequate nutrition. The reasons vary from to many fish , out of balance populations ,poor harvest management, natural disasters (weather related mostly), poor productivity (not fertile), water quality issues and others. That is a generality for our readers and not an assertion of any particular managed pond.

Yes there are waters that need nothing and can support over a thousand lbs of fish per acre. There are also a lot that can only support 50 lbs per acre with out help. The biggest problem is skinny fish and the easiest way to efficiently fix that is more food and harvest. Total population mgt is not about if you can grow a few big fish as that is common in non-managed low nutrient ponds as well. In most BG/LMB ponds supp. feeding of BG is very efficient and mostly results in better conditioned populations when used in connection with proper harvest.


Edited by ewest (11/12/18 01:41 PM)
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#498649 - 11/12/18 01:26 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
More info as requested.


North American Journal of Fisheries Management 38:794–802, 2018
© 2018 American Fisheries Society


Effect of Rearing Experience on the Survival, Growth, and Behavior of
Hatchery-Reared Largemouth Bass
Matthew J. Diana,*1 Brett J. Diffin,2 Lisa M. Einfalt, and David H. Wahl

Abstract
Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides are commonly stocked throughout their native range, but survival of
stocked fish is variable and often low. Hatchery fish may have difficulty switching to natural forage; therefore, providing
feeding experience with natural prey in the rearing environment could result in improved growth and survival of
Largemouth Bass after stocking. We conducted pond experiments to evaluate differences in growth and survival of
Largemouth Bass reared in raceways and fed pellets or in ponds and fed either Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus prey or
Fathead Minnow Pimephales promelas prey. Largemouth Bass reared on one of these three diets were stocked into
ponds containing Bluegill prey. After 2 months, pellet-reared Largemouth Bass were significantly smaller than fish
reared either on Fathead Minnows or Bluegills, whereas fish reared on either Fathead Minnows or Bluegills were similar.
Fathead Minnow-reared Largemouth Bass had lower survival than Bluegill-reared fish, but no other survival differences
were observed. To determine possible mechanisms influencing differential growth and survival of juvenile
Largemouth Bass, we also conducted laboratory experiments examining the influence of prior feeding experience (pellets,
Bluegills, or Red Shiners Cyprinella lutrensis) on foraging behavior and prey capture success in pools. Largemouth
Bass reared on live forage captured prey faster, ingested more prey, and had higher capture efficiencies than
did fish reared on pellets. Combined, pond and laboratory experiments show prior acclimation to live prey may ultimately
be beneficial to increasing growth of stocked hatchery Largemouth Bass and could result in increased recruitment.
We recommend additional exploration of acclimation of Largemouth Bass fingerlings to natural prey,
preferably Bluegills, prior to stocking to determine whether hatchery managers should consider alternative rearing
techniques.

Rearing Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides for
supplemental stocking is a common practice throughout
their range. Hatchery rearing techniques vary, but fish are
most often raised on a pellet diet in artificial systems.
Although this method is efficient at producing large quantities
of fish, poststocking survival rates can be low or
variable (Boxrucker 1986; Porak et al. 2002; Hoffman and
Bettoli 2005; Diana and Wahl 2008, 2009). Less-common
rearing techniques for Largemouth Bass include rearing in
ponds with minnow prey or introducing natural prey into
the hatchery diet. In these conditions, hatchery fish gain
experience foraging on live prey or acclimate to a more
natural environment before being stocked, and these methods
can be beneficial to poststocking growth or survival
for other species (Szendrey and Wahl 1995; Larscheid
et al. 1999; Czerniawski et al. 2015). Using more natural
pond environments and prey for rearing Largemouth Bass
may increase growth and survival after stocking.

Largemouth Bass that had prior experience preying on
natural prey exhibited advantages in growth and feeding
success than did pellet-reared fish. While all treatments
showed equal recognition of prey by initiating follow
behavior and engaging similarly in precapture behaviors
(follows, strikes, time moving), prior experience with live
prey improved capture success. Largemouth Bass reared
on live prey captured prey faster, captured more prey, and
had higher capture efficiencies than did pellet-reared bass.
When exposed to natural prey, fish become more effective
at capturing prey, as observed for tiger muskellunge
(Muskellunge Esox masquinongy × Northern Pike E.
lucius) (Gillen et al. 1981), Walleye (Wahl et al. 1995),
Chinook Salmon Oncorhynchus tshawytscha (Maynard
et al. 1996), Brown Trout (Sundstrom and Johnsson
2001), and Spotted Seatrout Cynoscion nebulosus (Jackson
et al. 2013). Pellet-reared Largemouth Bass had difficulty
capturing either prey type within a laboratory pool, and
we would expect these results to be magnified in a field
setting, where prey are not confined and can escape. Since
Largemouth Bass acclimated to live prey performed similarly
in pond and laboratory experiments, feeding experience
with any live prey may be more important for
Largemouth Bass than is prey type. However, we did
observe evidence of increased feeding success for Bluegillreared
Largemouth Bass in extended feeding trials (2 h) as
they captured more Bluegills than Red Shiners compared
with minnow-reared fish.
Even small differences in feeding efficiency can result in
growth differences that may have implications for survival.
Size of age-0 Largemouth Bass in the fall has been
related to overwinter survival with smaller fish experiencing
greater mortality (Miranda and Hubbard 1994; Ludsin
and Devries 1997; Garvey et al. 1998; Post et al. 1998).
Stocked Largemouth Bass overwinter survival is also size
dependent, and larger-sized individuals in the fall have
better survival (Diana and Wahl 2008). Throughout the
growing season, larger-sized juvenile piscivores can maintain
a competitive advantage over smaller cohorts (Ludsin
and Devries 1997). Larger individuals have a wider gape
resulting in better prey capture and lower handling times
(Einfalt et al. 2015; Detmer et al. 2018) and can also feed
on a larger proportion of the prey population resulting in
a greater availability of fish prey (Hambright et al. 1991).
In this study, the weight of pellet-reared Largemouth Bass
was only 80% of the weight of fish that had prior exposure
to fish prey. The smaller size of the pellet-reared fish could
result in differential recruitment due to higher overwinter
mortality.




Edited by ewest (11/12/18 01:37 PM)
_________________________















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#498650 - 11/12/18 01:36 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: ewest]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
While it may be true that a pond with 150 lb of LMB can grow equally very large fish as a pond with 500 lb of LMB, wouldn't the latter grow about three times as many?


Edited by anthropic (11/12/18 01:39 PM)
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#498651 - 11/12/18 01:39 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
All other things being equal - yes. Its getting and keeping all other things equal that is the challenge. A big issue is being able to catch those big fish.
_________________________















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#498652 - 11/12/18 01:40 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: ewest]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: ewest
More info as requested.


North American Journal of Fisheries Management 38:794–802, 2018
© 2018 American Fisheries Society


Effect of Rearing Experience on the Survival, Growth, and Behavior of
Hatchery-Reared Largemouth Bass
Matthew J. Diana,*1 Brett J. Diffin,2 Lisa M. Einfalt, and David H. Wahl

Abstract
Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides are commonly stocked throughout their native range, but survival of
stocked fish is variable and often low. Hatchery fish may have difficulty switching to natural forage; therefore, providing
feeding experience with natural prey in the rearing environment could result in improved growth and survival of
Largemouth Bass after stocking. We conducted pond experiments to evaluate differences in growth and survival of
Largemouth Bass reared in raceways and fed pellets or in ponds and fed either Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus prey or
Fathead Minnow Pimephales promelas prey. Largemouth Bass reared on one of these three diets were stocked into
ponds containing Bluegill prey. After 2 months, pellet-reared Largemouth Bass were significantly smaller than fish
reared either on Fathead Minnows or Bluegills, whereas fish reared on either Fathead Minnows or Bluegills were similar.
Fathead Minnow-reared Largemouth Bass had lower survival than Bluegill-reared fish, but no other survival differences
were observed. To determine possible mechanisms influencing differential growth and survival of juvenile
Largemouth Bass, we also conducted laboratory experiments examining the influence of prior feeding experience (pellets,
Bluegills, or Red Shiners Cyprinella lutrensis) on foraging behavior and prey capture success in pools. Largemouth
Bass reared on live forage captured prey faster, ingested more prey, and had higher capture efficiencies than
did fish reared on pellets. Combined, pond and laboratory experiments show prior acclimation to live prey may ultimately
be beneficial to increasing growth of stocked hatchery Largemouth Bass and could result in increased recruitment.
We recommend additional exploration of acclimation of Largemouth Bass fingerlings to natural prey,
preferably Bluegills, prior to stocking to determine whether hatchery managers should consider alternative rearing
techniques.

Rearing Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides for
supplemental stocking is a common practice throughout
their range. Hatchery rearing techniques vary, but fish are
most often raised on a pellet diet in artificial systems.
Although this method is efficient at producing large quantities
of fish, poststocking survival rates can be low or
variable (Boxrucker 1986; Porak et al. 2002; Hoffman and
Bettoli 2005; Diana and Wahl 2008, 2009). Less-common
rearing techniques for Largemouth Bass include rearing in
ponds with minnow prey or introducing natural prey into
the hatchery diet. In these conditions, hatchery fish gain
experience foraging on live prey or acclimate to a more
natural environment before being stocked, and these methods
can be beneficial to poststocking growth or survival
for other species (Szendrey and Wahl 1995; Larscheid
et al. 1999; Czerniawski et al. 2015). Using more natural
pond environments and prey for rearing Largemouth Bass
may increase growth and survival after stocking.

Largemouth Bass that had prior experience preying on
natural prey exhibited advantages in growth and feeding
success than did pellet-reared fish. While all treatments
showed equal recognition of prey by initiating follow
behavior and engaging similarly in precapture behaviors
(follows, strikes, time moving), prior experience with live
prey improved capture success. Largemouth Bass reared
on live prey captured prey faster, captured more prey, and
had higher capture efficiencies than did pellet-reared bass.
When exposed to natural prey, fish become more effective
at capturing prey, as observed for tiger muskellunge
(Muskellunge Esox masquinongy × Northern Pike E.
lucius) (Gillen et al. 1981), Walleye (Wahl et al. 1995),
Chinook Salmon Oncorhynchus tshawytscha (Maynard
et al. 1996), Brown Trout (Sundstrom and Johnsson
2001), and Spotted Seatrout Cynoscion nebulosus (Jackson
et al. 2013). Pellet-reared Largemouth Bass had difficulty
capturing either prey type within a laboratory pool, and
we would expect these results to be magnified in a field
setting, where prey are not confined and can escape. Since
Largemouth Bass acclimated to live prey performed similarly
in pond and laboratory experiments, feeding experience
with any live prey may be more important for
Largemouth Bass than is prey type. However, we did
observe evidence of increased feeding success for Bluegillreared
Largemouth Bass in extended feeding trials (2 h) as
they captured more Bluegills than Red Shiners compared
with minnow-reared fish.
Even small differences in feeding efficiency can result in
growth differences that may have implications for survival.
Size of age-0 Largemouth Bass in the fall has been
related to overwinter survival with smaller fish experiencing
greater mortality (Miranda and Hubbard 1994; Ludsin
and Devries 1997; Garvey et al. 1998; Post et al. 1998).
Stocked Largemouth Bass overwinter survival is also size
dependent, and larger-sized individuals in the fall have
better survival (Diana and Wahl 2008). Throughout the
growing season, larger-sized juvenile piscivores can maintain
a competitive advantage over smaller cohorts (Ludsin
and Devries 1997). Larger individuals have a wider gape
resulting in better prey capture and lower handling times
(Einfalt et al. 2015; Detmer et al. 2018) and can also feed
on a larger proportion of the prey population resulting in
a greater availability of fish prey (Hambright et al. 1991).
In this study, the weight of pellet-reared Largemouth Bass
was only 80% of the weight of fish that had prior exposure
to fish prey. The smaller size of the pellet-reared fish could
result in differential recruitment due to higher overwinter
mortality.




Do fish hatcheries acclimate their LMB to natural forage prior to stocking? How can we find out?


Edited by anthropic (11/12/18 01:41 PM)
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#498653 - 11/12/18 01:44 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Some do - you have to ask and or insist. If it is your initial stocking of LMB and you have a forage base and will be feeding it should not be an issue. We were discussing stocking feed trained LMB into an existing pond with LMB.
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#498654 - 11/12/18 02:02 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
More info

North American Journal of Fisheries Management 38:1039–1049, 2018
© 2018 American Fisheries Society

Poststocking Survival of Conditioned and Pond-Reared Compared to
Indoor Pellet-Reared Advanced Fingerling Florida Bass
Nicholas A. Trippel* and Wesley F. Porak
Erin H. Leone

Abstract
Supplemental stocking of hatchery Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides and Florida Largemouth Bass Micropterus
salmoides floridanus (hereafter, Florida Bass) is a common practice around the world, but the results commonly
do not meet expectations. Predation upon stocked fish and the inefficiency of stocked fish in capturing wild prey are
common reasons for low poststocking survival rates of hatchery fish. Standard protocol for rearing Florida Bass in
Florida includes growing fish out in indoor raceways with pellet feed until 5 d prior to stocking, when live prey is introduced.
We conducted a 3-year study to determine whether extended conditioning in outdoor ponds, exposure to predators
prior to stocking, or rearing in ponds rather than indoor raceways could increase the survival of hatchery-reared
Florida Bass. One month after stocking, mean survival for standard hatchery-reared fish that received pellets was 36%
(SE = 4.3) across all 3 years. Mean survival was 63% (SE = 4.7) for experimental fish conditioned with predators (ECWP),
41% (SE = 4.8) for fish conditioned without predators (E-CWOP), and 63% (SE = 5.4) for fish raised on live
prey in outdoor ponds in the absence of predators (E-PR). While stocked in research ponds, E-CWP and E-PR fish
had higher growth rates than standard pellet-reared fish. During laboratory trials to measure predator avoidance rates,
which began 24 h after experimental ponds were stocked, standard pellet-reared fish had a mean 48-h survival rate of
84% (SE = 6.6). Mean 48-h survival for the E-CWP, E-CWOP, and E-PR groups was 96% (SE = 1.9), 84%
(SE = 7.2), and 95% (SE = 3.1), respectively. Our experiments indicate that being reared outside or conditioning to a
natural environment and exposure to predators may increase poststocking survival of hatchery-reared Florida Bass.
_________________________















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#498655 - 11/12/18 02:30 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: ewest]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Yeah, that is my situation, adding feed trained LMB to a BOW that already has them. Worked real well with N LMB stocked last fall, thinking about doing it with F1 next fall.
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#498692 - 11/14/18 08:32 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Lets take Jim's experiment a little farther, if we can. We have lmb that are feed trained with a diet of fish food (pellets). He is showing some nice growth with these lmb. I understand it is in a lab environment. So, if a hatchery is growing out some lmb to the 1.5 to 2.5lb range to sell, do most hatcheries expose their feed trained lmb to forage? Or are they selling these larger sized lmb from an environment with feed only? What is the standard practice in the hatchery business when raising larger sized feed trained lmb? I would think the hatcheries would exchange information as to what works best when it comes to stocking customers ponds when selling the larger sized lmb? Exposing feed trained lmb to forage, bg, minnows, shad. Would this be the norm? Or not?
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#498694 - 11/14/18 12:26 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
From what I know. Hatcheries do not raise 2 lb LMB in the lab for sale to the general public - way to expensive. They do a variety of things along the lines of growout in ponds with feeding and some with natural forage and some mix of both. 12 inch , 1 lb LMB stocker fish are not easy to located from good sources. They can be arranged in advance in my experience.

So the question was - " So, if a hatchery is growing out some lmb to the 1.5 to 2.5lb range to sell, do most hatcheries expose their feed trained lmb to forage? Or are they selling these larger sized lmb from an environment with feed only?"

What I have found is the LMB are feed trained up to a few inches and then placed into ponds with existing forage. They are feed pellets after that. I have seen a few times that the small LMB are put in ponds with only feeders but that is a small portion of the time. My guess is it varies by hatchery based on need and demand. Others need to chime in with their experience.


To be clear the issue we are discussing ( studies above) is the use of small(< a lb.) feed trained only LMB stocked into a pond with an existing predator fish (LMB) population. Glad to discuss any situations I just don't want to give anyone the wrong impression or data.
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#498706 - 11/14/18 07:55 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Bill Cody Offline
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12520
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Quote:
I would think the hatcheries would exchange information as to what works best when it comes to stocking customers ponds when selling the larger sized lmb?


Good sense would agree with your assumption but reality is fish farms tend to be very protective of their farming methods to try to stay financially ahead of their competition; a strong financial stimulus.

A local farm near me raises larger LMB exclusively on pellets for the oriental food market in Canada. These fish likely get occasional natural pond food items during their grow out period, but natural foods would be rare in a pond with a high density of LMB. The farm does sell some of these larger bass for pond stocking.


Edited by Bill Cody (11/14/18 07:56 PM)
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#498721 - 11/15/18 09:53 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 367
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
The rearing of LMB to 1.5 to 2.0 lbs is expressly what I am involved in. The technology is relatively easy to command once you have in place resources needed to engage in pond culture and ideally capacity to hold fish at high density during feed training and immediately prior to marketing. From what I have been seeing, fish in a pond feeding well on pellets in a pond setting put little or no effort into going after natural forages. It is not unlike what goes on in a stream setting where some bass exhibit a strong preference for fish while others go mostly for crayfish. Search images and likely experience impacts on handling time help a fish decide where to invest feeding effort. It is pretty easy to see this stuff with groups of bass that are very easy to observe and distinguish.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#498722 - 11/15/18 09:58 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: ewest]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 367
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Originally Posted By: ewest
From what I know. Hatcheries do not raise 2 lb LMB in the lab for sale to the general public - way to expensive. They do a variety of things along the lines of growout in ponds with feeding and some with natural forage and some mix of both. 12 inch , 1 lb LMB stocker fish are not easy to located from good sources. They can be arranged in advance in my experience.

So the question was - " So, if a hatchery is growing out some lmb to the 1.5 to 2.5lb range to sell, do most hatcheries expose their feed trained lmb to forage? Or are they selling these larger sized lmb from an environment with feed only?"

What I have found is the LMB are feed trained up to a few inches and then placed into ponds with existing forage. They are feed pellets after that. I have seen a few times that the small LMB are put in ponds with only feeders but that is a small portion of the time. My guess is it varies by hatchery based on need and demand. Others need to chime in with their experience.


To be clear the issue we are discussing ( studies above) is the use of small(< a lb.) feed trained only LMB stocked into a pond with an existing predator fish (LMB) population. Glad to discuss any situations I just don't want to give anyone the wrong impression or data.



State / government owned hatcheries typically have much higher production costs for just about everything when compared to private producers. Private producers can produce 2 lb food fish at a profit while state hatcheries have to suck the taxpayers wallet raise a similar product. I no longer use the term hatchery unless dealing with an operation that specializes in actually hatching eggs and rearing early life stages. Government supported operations most likely to fall into this category.
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#498750 - 11/15/18 04:10 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Four years ago when I discovered Bob Lusk, The Pond Boss Conference and this forum, I learned of feed trained lmb. I saw exceptional growth with native or northern lmb. I understood Bob lusk and Richmond Mills may have been primarily feed lmb, Gregg Grimes feed trained lmb along with high forage fish numbers. I am still learning, Thanks guys. Jim, please keep us in the loop.
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#498755 - 11/15/18 07:26 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12520
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Members and readers, we are still looking for some pictures and information of how big your pellet fed largemouth bass have grown in your ponds. I am especially interested in how your LMB are doing if you are feeding the Aquamax Largemouth Bass nuggets. Those bass should be easily adding one pound of body weight each year.


Edited by Bill Cody (11/16/18 10:04 AM)
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#498782 - 11/16/18 11:50 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Yes Bill we need that and any and all info on LMB in a pond with only feeding (no substantial reliance on natural forage). Does anyone have a pond like that?
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#498786 - 11/16/18 12:50 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
bassmaster61 Offline


Registered: 06/18/15
Posts: 147
Loc: St. Louis, MO/West Central Ill...
We have been feeding Aquamax MVP to the LMB we stocked in early June 2017. They weighed 1-1.25 lbs. each and were feed trained when stocked. We caught several out of that small 1.6 acre BOW this last season that weighed in excess of 3 lbs.

However, this pond also has lots of natural forage and we have been hoping these stockers would take advantage of that. Not sure if they have been able to adapt to non-pellet live food or not.

That would mean that some of these fish have gained 2 lbs. or slightly more in 18 months.....4 of those months were in winter when i would imagine very little LMB feeding or growing is going on here in the Midwest....not a bad result in that amount of time IMO!

This next season we will get back into recording relative weight data in a consistent manner so my observations will have more numbers and statistics behind them. BM61.
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