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#498469 - 11/07/18 11:03 AM Large rock to fill in washout??
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deep East Texas
Ok, where the majority of water enters my pond there is about 4 ravines washed out really bad that I want to fill in. They are each at least 3-4 foot wide and 5-6 foot deep!!! Knowing that I need a LOT MORE limestone for clarity and keeping good ph, should I fill the ravines with maybe softball or grapefruit size limestone rock? What would I cover that rock with? I just feel that if I'm going to spend the money to fill the ravines it should at least benefit the water chemistry during future rains. Any advise? Don't want to waiste money on rock I don't need. Maybe I need to haul a lesser expensive product in first to fill the majority of the ravine first and then top it with rock?? I really don't know what I should do. I don't have near the grass growing around the pond I need yet but will continue to work on that this spring.I spoke to my local friend and dump truck operator last night and he said he can get the rock but it is very expensive.
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#498470 - 11/07/18 11:37 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
smokey Offline


Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 42
Loc: Douglass, TX
Flame,
I had the same problem and finally got it resolved. I had a guy come with a backhoe and fill in the trench (about half way) with dirt so that it was not so low. I then had him put in some large (8-10 inch) rock to slow down the water. Guess what the next heavy rain came and washed half the rock into my pond. Running water can do amazing things. I moved them back up to the drain and bought a lot of bag of concrete and spread it out over the rock and lightly watered it in. That did the trick. I guess what I an trying to tell you is that if you put in any small rock or small limestone it could go directly into your pond with the next rain. I would definitely look at large rock vs smaller rocks, then that may not be enough to slow down the water.
Joe

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#498471 - 11/07/18 11:53 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deep East Texas
Joe I remember us talking about this when I was at your place the other day. It just got me more motivated to start taking some type of action on this. Is everything still a go for Saturday? Is your big rock limestone? Remember about how much it cost and do they get it locally around here somewhere?
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#498474 - 11/07/18 12:46 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
What you use depends so much on what is available within a reasonable hauling distance. "Here" we have multiple limestone rock quarry's within 25 miles so crushed limestone in various sizes is the go-to rock. But if your location is a long ways from a limestone quarry then lime becomes an expensive amendment rather than relatively cheap.

I have never used quickcrete in burlap bags, but here is something you might consider.
Erosion control with quickcrete

quickcrete in fiber reinforced bag for erosion control

I have used quickcrete in regular cement bags placing it where I want a big "rock" the size of a 60 or 80# bag of quickcrete but the problem with the regular paper bags is as soon as they hit water you are done moving them around because they will soon split when wet. But I have used ordinary bags of 3000# strength quickcrete to line the edge of a crossing to hold the rock in place better. The fiber reinforced bags especially designed for the purpose would be much better if placing in water as they could be moved without ripping apart once the bag got wet.

Be advised quickcrete (or another brand presumably) is a LOT cheaper when bought in pallet quantities.

Another thing to consider whatever you do, make sure you wrap the rock up around the wash so the water stays within the rock area. If you just fill a wash with rock that particular spot will be fixed but the first rain will wash out on either of both sides of the rock. So you have to make sure when water runs again it stays in a channel with rock up both sides as high as the water gets.

You can also use the power of water to your advantage by putting lime in the path of the water flow to "wash" it into the pond over time by multiple rain events.


Edited by snrub (11/07/18 12:53 PM)
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#498481 - 11/07/18 04:42 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
gully washer Offline


Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 334
Loc: Texas
Concrete may be more cost efficient than rock. If you can get a concrete truck to the different locations, I'd back-fill and compact the ravines, and then form and pour a wide concrete channel and apron, and maybe place some rip rap where the water drops off the apron........ If you can't get a truck to the location, you could always mix your own concrete, but it'd really suck to have to do that

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#498484 - 11/07/18 06:18 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deep East Texas
My rock guy just called and said he could haul iron ore in to fill the ravines before putting any big rock. My concerns with that is what would a bunch of iron oare washing into the pond do? Would it damage the PH and chemistry of the pond? I know I need ag lime but just don't know much about iron ore and its affect.
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#498485 - 11/07/18 06:46 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Iron ore may be a lot heavier than regular rock. A neighbor who has a machine shop stopped a wash by putting scrap steel curlings from metal lathes into the wash. They are heavy and lock together. Regular rock would have washed out and down the ravine.
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#498490 - 11/07/18 08:01 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2414
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
James is the iron ore ground up like the kind they put down as road base? If so you will have red water! Not sure about the chemistry of it though.

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#498493 - 11/07/18 10:51 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
smokey Offline


Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 42
Loc: Douglass, TX
James,

Yes, Saturday around 11:00 is still on as far as I know. If I hear of any changes I will let you know. The rock that I used was not Limestone it is some type of granite rock. The rock he got was from a local dealer and he used a dump truck load full but for the life of me I can remember how much it cost. The guy I used is a local guy and he has two sons that work with him. If you are interested call me or PM me and I can get you his information. Glad to hear that you are going to get on top of this before it gets worse.

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#498494 - 11/07/18 10:58 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
smokey Offline


Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 42
Loc: Douglass, TX
James,
if you need some fill dirt (60/40 mix) I have as much as you want. Just tell the guy that has the truck to come and get it.

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#498504 - 11/08/18 06:59 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deep East Texas
Smokey, I think for fill dirt I should be able to just literaly "scrape" something up from my property My son has a large front end loader and would only take a few scoups. Think that would do? Also I found out I can get 12 inch limestone rock also for the same price per ton. I would think the larger would be better. QUESTION: Is AG LIME just crushed limestone rock???
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#498532 - 11/08/18 05:40 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes ag lime is just crushed limestone rock.

If you have acidic soils I really like the limestone rock to use in and around the pond.

One negative thing it will do though is grow algae and especially filamentous algae really well. Dump some limestone rock in a pond and in short order it will be covered with algae.

But otherwise I think it is very good for the chemistry of the pond water.


Edited by snrub (11/08/18 05:41 PM)
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#498536 - 11/08/18 06:17 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW One of my waterways was originally filled with 3 to 5 inch limestone rip rap. A heavy rain washed probably 20 yards of it and the clay underneath into the pond to create a "trench" 3 to 4 feet deep by 8 to 10 feet wide. I lined the new "trench" with 12 to 15 inch rip rap and the problem has not reoccurred even though we have had several heavy rains since. I ran the rip rap up the sides similar to what Snrub pointed out above and have had no problem with "flow around" erosion.
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#498555 - 11/09/18 06:48 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
My main water supply during rain events is a deeper ditch that fills my sediment pond first and then the big pond. At the head of it, it's about 6' wide and has about a 8' fast drop or water fall and then into another drain that is 8'+ deep and 12 foot wide and into the two ponds. Making the sediment pond muddy. You think adding limestone in the mid size would help to clear up the sediment pond? I think the rock most likely would be covered with sand and clays pretty quick in heavy rains. But, I'm thinking large limestone at the falls may work best at that spot. I would hate to spend the 8 or 900 bucks for a tractor trailer load and then it be covered up over a short time. It would be nice to clear up the sediment pond.
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#498559 - 11/09/18 07:49 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: snrub]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: snrub
Yes ag lime is just crushed limestone rock.

If you have acidic soils I really like the limestone rock to use in and around the pond.

One negative thing it will do though is grow algae and especially filamentous algae really well. Dump some limestone rock in a pond and in short order it will be covered with algae.

But otherwise I think it is very good for the chemistry of the pond water.


One advantage of larger rocks is that their crevices offer shelter to YOY fish and crawfish. Ideally you'd get a mix of sizes that would offer a variety of habitat options


Edited by anthropic (11/09/18 07:50 AM)
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#498566 - 11/09/18 06:11 PM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
gully washer Offline


Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 334
Loc: Texas
About 6 years ago, I stopped this inlet washout from progressing any further by way of constructing this concrete apron. At first, the water spilling over the edge slightly undermined the bottom side of the apron, but stopped doing so after progressing a few inches. The rip rap below the apron disperses the force of the falling water.



When building this one, I miscalculated full pool level and placed it a bit low. Nevertheless, it still works pretty good. All I have invested in either one is about a dozen bags of redi-mix, some re-bar, and a little sweat equity......... Also, these are pretty easy to mow over.

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#498581 - 11/10/18 06:06 AM Re: Large rock to fill in washout?? [Re: Flame]
john kelsey Offline


Registered: 04/15/12
Posts: 134
Loc: mi.
When my pond was built I had a over flow built in. The thing was more trouble than it was worth. When the field next to the pond would flood it would back flow into the pond. It would bring nutrients into the pond. What a mess. Ripped that sucker out. Been good since.

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