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#489220 04/27/18 12:22 PM
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Ok, here goes. My apologies up front for a lengthy post.

This pond is about 1 1/2 years old. It was dug on a 1.5 acre lot as a borrow pit to build my house on in SW La. Maximum depth is 12ft with virtually no subsurface structure. Mainly just a bowl with steep sides and one small area that has a slightly shallower grade. It has a 6 inch overflow pipe as an exit, but the inflow is coming from natural runoff from my and adjacent properties. Due to building my house I didn't have an opportunity to build any artificial structure or cover.

Upon initial filling the water soon took on a nice green color and had about 18 inches of visibility. Then came hurricane Harvey and 56 inches of flood water over the top of the pond that stayed for a week.

Prior to the flood, the pond had self propagated with GSF, bullheads, and a variety of minnows. After the flood the nice green water was tannic brown and stayed that way until just recently. I'm guessing the spring rains have flushed it out a bit. Now I have an algae bloom that's reduced the visibility to less than a foot and is pea soup in color, but I think it's only at the suface.

My idea for the pond was to stock it with CNBG, FHM, AND CC since all can be attained from a local hatchery. I'm willing to live with the GSF and Bullhead if I can keep them under control. I've seen as many as 100 of the BHC ranging from 12 inch adults to finglerings down to about 3 inches. I've placed a crab trap in the pond baited with fish pellets to try to catch some of those bullheads, so far unsuccessfully.

I've spend many hours here and elsewhere trying to get my mind wrapped around what I need to do with this pond, but to be honest, the more I read the more confused I'm getting, with Ph, alkalinity dissolved oxygen, so forth and so on. I've found an aerator system that will operate at 12 feet with a single diffuser that I intend to install as soon as the budget allows and hope that will help get the water straightened out.

Is there anything I can do in the meantime to get this algae bloom under control? My budget is limited presently so I've considered buying a bale of wheat straw and spreading it in the pond (barley isn't available here) but I hate the idea of having all that straw sinking to the bottom and creating another problem.

The pond is very close to the house, so esthetics is pretty important, but I want this pond to be viable and productive. Not a big fan of dyes either.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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bait your bullhead trap with canned dog or cat food with some holes punched in it - keep moving the trap around until you catch them. You'll end up with some gsf in the trap from time to time

aeration should help with the heavy algae bloom a bit


Mat Peirce
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I've been considering doing just that. I haven't seen the catfish do much feeding on the pellets, but a lot of the GSF and minnows have gotten the idea. With the bloom being what is, their feeding has deminished somewhat lately. I think my population of minnows is mixed between mosquito fish, common river minnows, and something else I haven't been able to ID. They've got a redish tail and are a bit larger than the mosquito fish and some have black vertical stripping. I'm hoping they aren't baby Choupique (Bowfin).


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Welcome to the club, you have come to the right place. I'm a bit of a novice here, but I can tell you that the GSF and BHC are typically an undesired fish to have in a pond. They reproduce more than most and eventually overpopulate the pond and their growth stunts due to too much competition for food.

I am very curious how you ended up with both in the pond. If it was from flooding high waters then it may be something you have to live with and manage the best you can. If not, and it was some fluke, like a neighbor kid sneaking in and stocking your pond for you then that would be a different matter. I am going to bet that most advise would be to kill the pond and start over with your desired species so long as the likelihood of getting the BHC and GSF back in the pond is minimal.

Otherwise, if you don't want to kill the pond, you should consider stocking some LMB along with the CNBG and CC along with removing as many of the BHC and GSF. These stocked fish should be large enough that your existing populations can't eat them. The LMB should help control the GSF, BHC, and CNBG recruitment. They are eating machines. A common thought for small ponds is that they are not easily managed for big LMB, so, you use the LMB to eat the young of that year (YOY) so that your populations don't get out of hand. You don't want the LMB to get so big that they eat your larger CNBG so you remove any that get over 13 inches or so.

Anyhow, food for thought. I struggled with the thought of my 1/4 acre pond getting overpopulated and decided to go a totally different route involving HBG, RES, and HSB...not near as much recruitment, but feeding becomes more important.

I am very interested in your green water concerns because I went something similar last year. It went away on it's own after a early summer rain flushed the pond.


Fish on!,
Noel
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Fish on!,
Noel
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Hey Noel.

Yeah, I've considered killing the pond and starting from scratch.

The first fish we saw in the pond were prior to the flood. Both BHC and GSF had shown up. My guess is birds transplanted them as we live on the edge of swamp bottom near the Sabine river. Just a couple hundred yards from a bayou. I'm sure some also swam in with the flood water, just as some swam out. There's no telling what may be lurking down there. I removed a river eel about 2 feet long last weekend.

This area has never been prone to flooding in the past, but has flooded twice in two years. Prior to that, not in over 20.

That reason alone has me apprehensive about spending a lot of money on fish. I can catch CC and LMB to transplant so my intent is buy CNBG and FHM and fish the crap out of the BHC and GSF. You know us cajuns will eat anything!!

The color of the pond has improved slightly today and there's three BHC swimming in a cooler right now. One about 10". I'll keep them there till I have a mess and give them a grease bath! They're not bad eating when their small.

I failed to mention earlier that I built 6 wire baskets and stuffed them full of straw. Don't know if it's near enough to do much good. They've been in the water just a few days. I figure I have around 265k gallons of water so 6 small pillows wont make much impact. Probably need the better part of a bale to do any good, but that's a lot of grass floating around and sinking to the bottom. I'm wondering if anyone here has had much luck with this technique and hope they'll weigh in with some info.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Just read your attached post Noel. My water is nearly that brilliant green. Maybe I'm being too anal...lol. Still, the visibility needs to be better.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Correction....ISN'T nearly that


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Ive been doing some more reading here this morning regarding aeration, and as is typical for me, I've confused myself yet again.

I am intending to install an aerayion system, but my main reasoning for it, besides providing a less stratifide ecosystem, was to help with water clarity. Is my thinking in this regard going astray? Will aeration improve clarity or will it not? Where we are, we typically always have some wind, so the water in this pond is almost always moving to some degree, but at 12' deep and being a bowl, is it moving enough with natural influences to keep the bottom water from becoming stratified. I'm pretty sure it isn't, as I have witnessed it turn over, so destratification, in my mind will be accomplished with a diffuser centrally located on the bottom of the pond.

But back to my main question here....will it help with clarity? Being a new pond its devoid of any vegetation except around the bank, where some emergent grasses have started to take hold.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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I wouldn't worry about the GSF. They only spawn annually and will never be a real problem. I have a forage pond with a bunch of them in it. I don't hesitate to seine and xfer them to my larger pond.


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Wait for it... "It Depends" smile Bottoms diffusers are designed to turn the water over and expose the bottom layer of water to the atmosphere where it will take on O2. Makes most all the water in a pond livable. As I understand it, it will improve the water quality, but I have experienced a diffuser kicking up some detritus along with some dirt from the bottom of the pond. But, I have also seen it clear up a dense bloom faster than without having aeration. Mr. Lusk has said in his facebook sessions that in a small pond it would be wise to have both bottom diffuser along surface aeration. I am no expert but have some experience with bottom diffusers. Hope this helps out a little.

PS, never read or remember reading where Wheat straw helps to clear green water, but have read where Barley might help.

Last edited by TGW1; 04/28/18 09:04 AM.

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Keep your LMB numerous and mostly in the 8"-14" sizes and you will not have to worry about lots of GSF and bullheads. Feed them pellets and the GSF and BHC will be larger and add to the harvestable fish. BH when common could keep the water slightly turbid. The green bloom will minimize the chance of submerged weeds and filamentous pond scum (FA).

I Louisiana a 12' deep pond will definitely stratify at a level of around 6-8ft. For 1/43 ac, bottom aeration with one two head diffuser in the section 7+ft will elimiate stratification. If you monitor the water column temperatures in mid-summer you might get buy with aeration for 6-10 hrs per day if the system is designed properly.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/28/18 01:46 PM.

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Right now, BHC are definitely the most common fish in the pond. I've got 6 swimming in a cooler right now ranging from 6 to 13 inches in about a hour's time. I've seen as many as three schools simultaneously of approximately 30 fish each from 3 to 6 inches long hovering just below the surface at mid day.

The GSF that I can positively ID are ranging from 2 to 6 inches. I haven't caught any of the larger fish but have seen a few around the banks. The smaller fish are numerous.

I've gotten a quote on an aerator system with a single diffuser that will operate in 12 feet that I felt was reasonably priced. Won't say from who, but I think they're fairly reputable.

My plan is to drop the diffuser dead center on the bottom and set it up on a timer to run 8 - 12 hrs overnight. The way my property is laid out, shade starts onto the surface around 3:30pm. As it continues to cover the pond I know the oxygen level will start to decline. Having it run at night should keep the oxygen level balanced and not be constantly stirring up the bottom. Hopefully, this will help with the turbidity.

If I'm thinking wrong about this I hope someone will get me straightened out. Thanks to everyone who have replied thus far. It's greatly appreciated.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Right now, BHC are definitely the most common fish in the pond. I've got 6 swimming in a cooler right now ranging from 6 to 13 inches in about a hour's time. I've seen as many as three schools simultaneously of approximately 30 fish each from 3 to 6 inches long hovering just below the surface at mid day.

The GSF that I can positively ID are ranging from 2 to 6 inches. I haven't caught any of the larger fish but have seen a few around the banks. The smaller fish are numerous.

TGW1...
I knew it was just a matter of time before the "It Depends" would flung out there...lol. Just like no two bodies are the same.

Regarding using wheat straw, from what I've read and been told, it will work, just not as effectively as Barley. Maze stalks have also been tried with limited success. I'm not a big fan of using a bunch of chemicals, and a bale of wheat straw at the local coop is $15. Not sure what it would cost to treat 265,000 gallons of water.

I've gotten a quote on an aerator system with a single diffuser that is rated to operate in 12 feet that I felt was reasonably priced. Won't say from who, but I think they're fairly reputable.

My plan is to drop the diffuser dead center on the bottom and set it up on a timer to run 8 - 12 hrs overnight. The way my property is laid out, shade starts onto the surface around 3:30pm. As it continues to cover the pond I know the oxygen level will start to decline. Having it run at night should keep the oxygen level balanced and not be constantly stirring up the bottom. Hopefully, this will help with the turbidity.

If I'm thinking wrong about this I hope someone will get me straightened out. Thanks to everyone who have replied thus far. It's greatly appreciated.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Mike, it's kinda of fun saying "it Depends" lol And it really does come into play when talking about diffusers and how or what they do for a pond, or at least my pond. And as far as the Wheat straw, like I said I don't remember reading about wheat straw because my CRS seems to be getting worse smile Best wishes with your pond!


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Morning Tracy,
There's a couple of different studies, mostly done in Europe, regarding the use of Barley straw in ponds. There hasn't been anything done specifically using Wheat that I know of, but a couple of the reports I found said that other straws could be used, especially where Barley isn't available, but their effectiveness isn't as pronounced as with Barley because of their chemicle make-up. While you can purchase the small brick sized bundles of barley on-line (they're not cheap considering the amount you get), they're primarily intended for use in small decorative type ponds used for Koi. It would cost a small fortune to get enough to be of any use in a 1/4 acre pond 12 foot deep.

I was out at the pond last night and again this morning and have noticed a lite scummy like film on the surface. Almost silvery in color when light hits it. I'm thinking it may be pollen, but at this point...who knows. The clarity this morning is maybe 12" using a white coffee mug. I collected a jar of water last night and brought it inside and away from sunlight to see if anything settles on the bottom or if its locked in suspension. It has a light green tint to it but is transparent currently.

That brings up another question, regarding lime. Currently the runoff coming into my pond from outlying properties is funneled thru a very shallow ditch. I purposely allow my neighbors runoff to flow thru to keep him from flooding when we get alot of rain. I'm wondering if I filled that ditch in with fist sized limestone, would that help by 1) Filtering any sediment coming from the runoff and 2) dispursing small amounts of lime into the pond as the runoff flows thru the rock. It would be a maintainance issue, having to periodically pull the rock out and cleaning it up so the water could flow freely, and spraying round-up at strategic times to kill any weeds that will grow in the rock. Has anyone ever done this or know someone who has, and if so, what were the results?


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Update on the jar test...
After 24 hours the water has particles of some kind just suspending in the column. A light greenish gold clear color, but absolutely no sediment collecting on the bottom. I'm guessing some kind of an algae. Question is...what now? Is this condition ok? Do i need to treat it? What other parameters do I need to be looking at?


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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2nd update...
Its been nearly 48 hours since I started the jar test. Suspended particles still exist and clarity hasn't changed, however, now there's a green almost FA looking accumulation on the suface of the water. Visibility on the pond has improved, but the wind blown end now has that same FA looking scum piled against the bank.

Suggestions PLEASE!!!!


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Ok....maybe I'm being too anal and just need to let the pond do its thing. A week ago, visibility was at less than 10 inches. Today, it measures 29" (measured using a white mug dangled from a pole). I haven't done a thing during that time. The water has now become more green than turbid throughout with exception to the north side, which is blanketed along the bank with a light green skum like coating which I believe is pollen. Doesnt look like any FA I've ever encountered.

About two weeks ago I placed 6 wire pillow type baskets approx. 24" long x 12" circumference, stuffed with wheat straw and a piece of styrofoam, and on the last mowing, decided to knock down the plant growth around the edge. It was close to waist high before i took it down to about a foot. The cuttings were all over the surface at one time, but now are mainly just around the edge and are still green. Other than just a few remaining cuttings, the surface is completely clear. No FA at all. Other than these factors nothing has been done. No rain in over 10 days. In two week's time, its gone from 18" to less than 10, then back to 29.

I have ordered a wide range ph test kit so I'll be able to monitor the balance soon.

Can anyone offer some possible antidotes as to what may have caused this swing in visibilty?


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Sometimes clay ponds clear on their own when there is no rain for several days. Mine tend to do the same thing. It varies. Sometimes visibility is 10 feet in mid winter, decreasing to about 1.5 to two feet in spring and summer. You probably have a plankton bloom going. Two different ponds adjacent to each other can easily have different clarity levels.
Here's a Google earth pic from 3-13-18. They were a little bit low then.

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After closer inspection of the wind blown side of the pond, I've come to the conclusion that what's floating on top is some kind of algae. Being it is concentrated to that one side, it would be easy to eradicate with some kind of algaecide. Can I use the stuff that Home Depot sells for pools or is there something else I should be using?


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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The pool algae killer will likely kill your fish, and would not be approved for ponds.

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So what should I use and where can I get it? Would the local feed store carry something?


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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The feed store might carry something, or could order it, and probably their manager could counsel on its use. If your algae problem is minor, it's probably best to leave it be.

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Mike, if what you have floating in your pond is FA (filamentous algae) of some sort, it is on it's dying/decaying portion of it's cycle and will be sinking soon. That stuff tends to start it's life by growing on the bottom. Once it starts to fade away it begins to decay and the gasses will get trapped in the tangles and float it to the surface.

It would be best to rake it out and compost it or dispose of it somewhere so that it's nutrients don't wash back into the pond.

The following link will take you to a thread that is in the "Common Pond Q&A" section and will give you plenty of reading on the subject...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92633#Post92633

Since photo bucket changed their rules regarding the sharing of photo, the above link will be missing a lot of pictures, but there is still plenty of learning available in the text.


Fish on!,
Noel
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