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#497470 - 10/14/18 10:17 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 252
Loc: Texas
I agree with John. This LMB looks healthy. LMB between the sizes of 6" and 10" tend have more forage available to them. They get first crack at the YOY BG.


Edited by jpsdad (10/14/18 10:48 AM)

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#497474 - 10/14/18 12:22 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Now that I have really though about what I have been catching and doing a lot more reading I will be getting pictures of what we catch and post them up. Hope to get back to fishing there before it gets too cold. I have been spending all my time down there working on expanding the pond. The reason I originally thought it was LMB overpopulated was cause I was catching lots of LMB and no small BG or GSF. I would catch some nice BG in the 8" range. One other thing that made me think that there was a problem with small BG was when I would kill one of those horseflies and throw it in the pond it would almost be eaten immediately and I noticed a few yrs ago that while bushhogging and throw one in that nothing would happen. So I figured that the small fish around the edge was just not there like before. Now I have started a journal to keep records about the pond so I will start getting pictures and keeping better records than just in my head. Thanks for the responses. One other thing might be the CC that are in the pond are now getting pretty large and we have been taking them out as we catch them this year. Maybe the large CC have been taking out the small BG and not so much the LMB doing it.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


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#497475 - 10/14/18 02:51 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5401
Loc: SE Kansas
If you are catching lots of small LMB like the one in the picture and few small and medium size BG then it sounds like you need to be removing lots of small bass. They are wiping out your BG spawn before the BG reach any size most likely.

You could also add some fairly dense cover like cedar trees around spawning areas to give some protection for the BG fry and fingerlings so they can get bigger.
_________________________
John

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#497491 - 10/15/18 09:33 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Thanks John for the response. That's what I was thinking after I started reading several yrs ago. Everything I read was saying that LMB overpopulating was very common especially in ponds that have been neglected like mine has been for yrs. I also think that I need to continue to take out CC since they are getting pretty good size and they may be eating up small BG.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#497503 - 10/15/18 11:10 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5401
Loc: SE Kansas
We ended up with the opposite problem in our main pond, not enough LMB so the BG got carried away with themselves. I will say that I had put lots of cover for them (very little around the edge but I put lots out in the middle of the pond) and plenty of spawning area so that may have been part of the problem. I think I have that problem solved now by raising up a bunch of LMB fingerlings to 8-14" in another pond and transferring them to the main pond where the problem is. I'm already seeing the young bass whooping up on the smaller BG around the edge of the pond.

We also have CC in our pond and actually have recruitment in all year classes. I suspect once our LMB numbers are up to speed the CC recruitment may stop but that is ok too. We enjoy the CC and harvest lots each year (just cleaned a 2+ pounder last night). Our preferred size to catch them is in the 2-3# range. I do not like to see them getting bigger than about 3#. We fish mostly for pan fish so do not really care about having fish of any specie larger than that. A big LMB for our friends to catch once in a while would be ok but not a requirement.


Edited by snrub (10/15/18 11:15 AM)
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#497514 - 10/15/18 01:05 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
I haven't seen any young CC or BH in my pond except some YOY BH back during the summer swimming in a wad about he size of a basketball in the edge by where I was fishing. I have put out 5gal buckets for the CC to spawn in with hopes of getting them started. The CC we have been catching I think are all some we put in over the past several yrs. Also the CC don't really hit the chicken livers or worms for that matter. I have caught them on GSH.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#497597 - 10/17/18 10:39 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Some before and after pictures of trees cut down on the east side. The trees were where the shoreline was before I moved the spillway up. The water level still lacks about a foot till full flood.


Attachments
pond 28.jpg (141 downloads)
pond 29.jpg (134 downloads)
pond 31.jpg (117 downloads)
pond 32.jpg (113 downloads)
pond 33.jpg (141 downloads)

_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#497987 - 10/27/18 08:41 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Finally got to go fishing this afternoon. Caught 8 LMB All were small. 2 @ 7 1/2" 3@ 8" 1@ 8 1/2" and 2@ 9" My scale is not a digital one but one of those cheep hang up kind. So I weighed the total of all the fish and it was 2 lbs. Pretty small. I was fishing with GSH. Had a few more that got off. Didn't see any little ones around the shallows like I have been but it has cooled off. We had some lows in the 40s last week and today was in the 70s. Might give it a try again tomorrow if my minners don't die on me.


Attachments
fish caught 10-27-18.jpg (105 downloads)

_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498023 - 10/28/18 10:39 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Went back again today. Minnows survived the night so I got to try em again. Caught a lot more little ones but did catch this 14" and 11" LMB. Caught 2 @7" 3 @71/2" and 1 @91/2" The 14" did weigh on my scale at 1 lbs. and the 11" weighed about 1/2 lbs. Total weight of all caught was 3 1/2 lbs. I think these are pretty underweight. They look long and skinny. What do yall think? I still think I need to be taking out all the lmb that I catch.


Attachments
fish 10-28-18.jpg (119 downloads)
fish caught 10-28-18.jpg (156 downloads)

_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498037 - 10/29/18 01:36 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 966
Loc: West Central Missouri
They do look to be thin. Look up relative weights for lmb and you'll get a better idea, especially if you get a better way of weighing them. They do not look to be too thin, however. Most pond's lmb tend to be 80 to 90% RW, IIRC. I would leave the lmb if you are trying to develop a BG pond, but if lmb are your goal them I'd say you need to make some room in the pond.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#498214 - 11/01/18 11:20 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Well after the 3" rain last night the pond is full.


Attachments
pond 48.jpg (130 downloads)
Description: Water running out the spillway.

pond 46.jpg (127 downloads)
Description: Looking across pond from east side. It's full.

pond 8.jpg (115 downloads)
Description: Before and after comparison of fishing dock

pond 44.jpg (92 downloads)

_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498720 - 11/15/18 09:53 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
I don't think the fish are biting this morning.


Attachments
pond snow 4.jpg (129 downloads)
Description: Had about a 3" snow yesterday. Kinda unusual for here in mid Nov.




Edited by bigpullerman (11/15/18 09:55 AM)
Edit Reason: forgot to add picture
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498861 - 11/20/18 08:06 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
I have been doing a lot of research on this forum. I have over 400 different threads that I plan on reading over the winter. Lots of good info I expect to get out of these threads to answer the questions I have about managing my pond. We are really fortunate to have such a great resource with all the expert moderators that are available to answer the questions we all have. I have put on my Christmas list for a subscription to the Pond Boss magazine.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498879 - 11/21/18 01:25 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
After doing some reading here and at other resources I have come to some conclusions. 1 I really believe my pond to be overrun with LMB. 2 I think that the CC I have in here are also a problem as they have become a large predator. The ones we are catching are around 3lbs. 3 I used to have crappie (don't remember of white or black) but have not caught one since summer of 2017 so I would say that they are gone or not many around. I guess they lost out to the LMB. 4 I don't catch BG or GSF like I used to even though I have been bucket stocking them pretty regular for the past 4 yrs. What I have put in were 2 to 6 inch size. Some even larger. Now I have not fished for them but I would get some hitting the minnows I used to fish for the LMB. 5 We have put BH in the pond ever since it was built over 20 yrs ago and I have yet to catch one. Now I did see a cloud of fry this past summer so I believe there are some in there.
Now here is what I have done and plan on doing to improve my pond.
1 Expanded pond size to a little over an acre. I did that this summer and will continue to make it bigger. It won't be any deeper, I have maxed out on my levee and fishing dock as far as dept.
2 Fish hard for the LMB and CC so I can reduce their numbers to give the BG a chance.
3 Continue to add BG and GSF and not keep any till I start catching some of all sizes.
4 Work on some more brushpiles to help out the little fish.
5 Started a journal to keep up with fish caught and put in the pond along with any observations.
6 I want to add some RES to the mix but I have got to find larger sizes cause of the LMB
My goals for the pond are to have a fairly balanced pond to where I can go and catch BG GSF LMB and CC. I want the grandkids to be able to catch something about every time we go out. Now my priorities might change over the years because some of those monster BG look pretty good. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#498880 - 11/21/18 04:00 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 966
Loc: West Central Missouri
I think you are the right track for your goals. I would bet that your brush-pile efforts are very important and waging war on those large LMB and CC is the most important. 3 pound predators can really eat some big BG. Get the 3 pounders out and get as many big pan fish in there as you can. This way your 2 pounders can continue to grow if you can get a good population of pan-fish breeding.

It's funny how 3 pound fish can be perceived as a problem!

And, the solution is to fish hard!

Such a terrible problem to have! wink
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#498884 - 11/21/18 10:52 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Thanks Noel
The thing is the CC we caught this year was all on GSH. That kinda tells me that they are chasing fish. I had tried some catfish baits and didn't even get a nibble. I am really thinking next year about doing some trotlining. I should have my boat fixed by then. I am also thinking that I need to use some GSF under a bobber to catch the bigger LMB. I have a spot I can get them easily.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#499643 - 12/13/18 04:02 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Lots of reading and reflecting on my pond. One thing that I have noticed is I don't have any plants growing in my pond. I never have as far as I can remember. I would have grass growing around the edges but that's pretty much it. I have lots of trees growing all around it and I have started removing them. Lots of willows on the levee that will be a booger to cut and remove. My water level will fluctuate a good 5 ft every summer when we get dry. Would that be the reason for no plants? Most of my runoff comes from farm land so I am pretty sure I get some fertilizer along with some chemicals but that don't seem to bother the area that it runs down to get to the pond. I was just curious so I thought I would ask here.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#499645 - 12/13/18 04:33 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2602
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Willows are a big consumer of water from what Iíve heard- so it might be good to remove as many as possible before spring.....

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#499646 - 12/13/18 04:53 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 350
Loc: Iowa
build a cloverleaf trap....a few maybe, of different sizes...and start trapping your pond to survey the fish. You might be amazed at how many fish you still have in the pond that you haven't caught or seen from the surface!
_________________________
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#499654 - 12/13/18 09:15 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
I did buy a couple minnow traps a few months ago. Tried them once and didn't catch anything. I just used some marshmallows for bait so that might of been the problem. One other thing is I am a cricket, minnow and worm kind of fisherman and I am going to start using some artificial baits. And start doing some troutlining for them CC. I have got to get my boat repaired so I can be mobile on the pond. I have got to up my game on catching LMB and CC.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#499658 - 12/13/18 11:41 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
anthropic Online   content


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1655
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: bigpullerman
Lots of reading and reflecting on my pond. One thing that I have noticed is I don't have any plants growing in my pond. I never have as far as I can remember. I would have grass growing around the edges but that's pretty much it. I have lots of trees growing all around it and I have started removing them. Lots of willows on the levee that will be a booger to cut and remove. My water level will fluctuate a good 5 ft every summer when we get dry. Would that be the reason for no plants? Most of my runoff comes from farm land so I am pretty sure I get some fertilizer along with some chemicals but that don't seem to bother the area that it runs down to get to the pond. I was just curious so I thought I would ask here.


You might consider cutting some of the willows and sinking them in the pond to make cover for your YOY fish, especially near spawning areas. Without plants, the little guys don't have enough cover.

You might also think about buying some cheap WalMart type kiddie pools, filling them with appropriate size pea gravel, and attaching them to the bottom to help spawning. Do it at various depths so the BG can spawn regardless of water level.

I'm just now getting water plants & adding habitat, it is a constant battle!
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#499659 - 12/14/18 04:49 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13734
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I like cedars and have plenty of them. They generally last 3 or four years
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#499660 - 12/14/18 07:52 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5401
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: bigpullerman
Went back again today. Minnows survived the night so I got to try em again. Caught a lot more little ones but did catch this 14" and 11" LMB. Caught 2 @7" 3 @71/2" and 1 @91/2" The 14" did weigh on my scale at 1 lbs. and the 11" weighed about 1/2 lbs. Total weight of all caught was 3 1/2 lbs. I think these are pretty underweight. They look long and skinny. What do yall think? I still think I need to be taking out all the lmb that I catch.


Sounds like you are on the right track.

A feeding program would really help out your forage fish situation. The feed will put the existing BG adult population in a lot better shape to produce larger spawns.

Your intentions of adding adult size forage fish and putting in cover for the fry are good moves.

One thing I would suggest though is forgo the addition of GSF for the time being. I am not an anti-GSF guy at all. But consider their mouth size. A GSF will, inch for inch in length, have the same size mouth as a LMB. So you are removing small LMB but adding GSF with a similar size mouth and feeding capability. If you want more GSF in your pond, wait till you get your BG up to speed, then add the GSF later after your forage base is in better condition. My concern for the present is any adult GSF you add are adding to your predator population eating your 1-3" forage fish.


Edited by snrub (12/14/18 07:56 AM)
_________________________
John

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#499661 - 12/14/18 08:13 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5401
Loc: SE Kansas
Since you are handy with that tractor, one way to put your forage fish production in high gear is to create a small forage pond. I have one 1/20th acre.

You would not even need to make it terribly deep. Just a very small pond, put about 3 or 4 pairs of BG with highly desirable features for brood stock, and sein it one to three times a year. I saw a couple of helpers in your pictures that would have a ball doing that.

You could make it shallow enough to be safe for your younguns to sein. I bet 1/40th acre 4' deep would do it. It might freeze out in the winter, but so what. Put a few adult BG in each spring. Make it narrow and long so it is easy to seine. Shape the bottom like a paint pan made for paint rollers.

Tip. Putting more adult BG in that size small pond will not make it produce more fry. The added adults will just eat more of the fry. Some very old research papers showed that. Just a handful of adults is all you need to produce a pond full of fry.

Build it so it will not flood from the main pond or you will end up with predators in it.


Edited by snrub (12/14/18 08:25 AM)
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John

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#499665 - 12/14/18 10:25 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 123
Loc: central Arkansas
Thanks Guys for some good Ideas. I have lots of cedars and I am planning on building a small fry area. I plan on making a fence of sorts by driving pvc pipe into the bottom every foot or so and then filling that area with lots of cedars along with tree limbs of all sorts to make an extremely dense cover area. The fence will be to hold the stuff in place. This will definitely be a no fishing area. I am hoping that with all the dirt dug out in some new areas that the BG will take to it. One note on spawning area, 5 yrs ago when the pond got low and I was a digging I noticed some spawning beds by a willow that had grown up in a shallow spot. There was like 3 or 4 around this tree and I though it was just BG but when we would fish that area we always caught LMB so I think that was a LMB spawning spot. The reason I thought that also was some LMB spawning habitat deals I seen that showed that LMB like to have something to back up to.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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