Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,900
Posts557,086
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
10 members (Augie, dg84s, IND1371, Brandon Larson, Dave Davidson1, Fishingadventure, PRCS, Sunil, Theo Gallus, BillyE), 758 guests, and 286 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
J
JKS3613 Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
I have decided that I would like to add some PK grass shrimp (Palaemonetes kadiakensis) to my pond here in S. Louisiana as an additional forage species. However, after a quick search, it appears that the going price is about .60-.65 each! I wonder if they can be raised in a 300 gal rubbermaid tub? Does anyone here have any experience in this or have any sources of info on raising them?
Thanks!

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 184
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 184
Are pk the same as the ghost shrimp you catch in ditches?

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
J
JKS3613 Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
Possibly, but not sure. These (PK) are known as Mississippi grass shrimp and are more cold tolerant than the other varieties. There is a guy in N. LA that sells them, but I want to see if I can raise my own.

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 184
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 184
Go to a weedy creek and use a fine dip net and probably get enough to get a start of them . I did that and I still have them in the pond.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
J
JKS3613 Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
Thanks, that would work, and I don't mind buying a few to get started, but I want to raise a bunch. My trouble is finding info on rearing them.

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
A
Offline
A
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
Used to get them from a bait dealer in Baton Rouge, deadly on almost everything: CC, CNBG, RES, LMB, you name it. We'd put ice in the bottom of the bucket and use mesh to keep PK above it in moss. They didn't survive well totally immersed.

Be aware that if you don't have extensive weeds, PK won't prosper. They are slow & easy pickings in open water.

Last edited by anthropic; 10/18/18 05:51 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 18
B
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 18
I have a 1/4acre bait pond that I stocked with them last fall. I bought maybe 300 off a seller and after shipment I would be surprised if 75-100 lived.

I saw no signs of life all winter long... extremely heavy freeze (For us in NC) with a couple weeks in single digits and I assumed all had died. I shocked the pond this fall just to see what was going on... and I was amazed that the water was literally "boiling" with shrimp. I have since several thousand to a 10 acre lake and will let you know the survival rate next spring in that body of water.

It would be hard to estimate but I'm guessing that 75-100 shrimp easily turned into 50,000 plus ?!? There was also almost no predation in that pond, except for a few errant BG.

Good Luck.

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
A
Offline
A
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
Great work! PK shrimp are just the ticket for YOY LMB and most BG. You must not have had many BG in that pond or all the PK would be gone quickly.

By the way, did you have plants in the pond? Thought I read somewhere that PK shrimp lay eggs on plants, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Last edited by anthropic; 10/29/18 05:45 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
Swingle reported some tests with PK. ("BIOLOGICAL MEANS OF INCREASING PRODUCTIVITY IN PONDS"). I've posted the link before. It's open source so google if interested.

PK benefit greatly from plants. The plant he noted was chara. I found it remarkable what they can do for an infertile pond with chara. He noted that najas didn't seem to benefit them. He reported an 89% increase in BG production over BG and Chara alone in an unfertilized pond.

His production cycle involved stocking 19.3 lbs PK/acre and 48 lbs BG/acre. The PK shrimp increased BG production by 109 lbs (from 124 lbs/acre to 235 lbs/acre) in an unfertilized pond and the production of PK was 162 lbs/acre. This is quite remarkable (standing weight of 180 lbs of PK). Don't know what the conversion for PK is but likely greater than 5 to 1. So as much as 707 lbs of PK were produced in the presence of predation. Quite remarkable indeed. The standing weight at the end of production suggests that PK are better than gambusia and FHM at maintaining a population at least in the presence of chara.



Last edited by jpsdad; 10/29/18 07:04 PM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
jpsdad - Would you please repost the link to the grass shrimp article by Swingle? My Google search was inadequate to find the article.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
Well I tried to just upload it but the forum doesn't allow pdf in the file manager. I will do a quick google ...

http://www.nativefishlab.net/library/textpdf/15116.pdf



Last edited by jpsdad; 10/29/18 07:15 PM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
J
JKS3613 Offline OP
OP Offline
J
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
Thanks. Interesting, but still no data on tank (stock tank) rearing of PK shrimp, and that's what I'm after. I have no doubt that they will increase BG/LMB production once established in a pond, I just am trying to figure out if they can be efficiently tank raised. Since their young goes through a planktonic, not benthic, stage, I'm not sure how that will work with the filtration system etc. My guess is that if it were easy to do, there would be more info online about it. Hoping to figure it out eventually, if it's possible. Thanks again for your input.

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
I gleaned some things from the paper that could be used in tank culture. Read the part about fertilization and brush for adding substrate. I would personally use organic fertilization (alfalfa or cottonseed meal). Remove to the brush to harvest. They produced 1000 lbs of them to the acre with bluegill eating them along the way. I bet you could produce a fair number of them even if it weren't optimal.

BUMP.

I wouldn't filter the water, that will remove food they will eat. At high density you may need aeration but they produced 1000 lbs/acre of them without it.

Last edited by jpsdad; 10/29/18 10:19 PM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
A
Offline
A
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
Originally Posted By: jpsdad
I gleaned some things from the paper that could be used in tank culture. Read the part about fertilization and brush for adding substrate. I would personally use organic fertilization (alfalfa or cottonseed meal). Remove to the brush to harvest. They produced 1000 lbs of them to the acre with bluegill eating them along the way. I bet you could produce a fair number of them even if it weren't optimal.

BUMP.

I wouldn't filter the water, that will remove food they will eat. At high density you may need aeration but they produced 1000 lbs/acre of them without it.


I cannot imagine how many PK it would take to add up to 1,000 lbs shocked

That said, maybe I should look in to getting some in my BOW. I have chara and need to more efficiently feed my CNBG so they can in turn feed my LMB!

Last edited by anthropic; 10/29/18 11:22 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 274
D
Moderator
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 274
That's a heckuva load of critters. Any concern about a DO crash?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
jpsdad - thanks a lot for providing the link to the grass shrimp paper/study.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/30/18 08:20 AM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
That's a heckuva load of critters. Any concern about a DO crash?


Dave, especially in monoculture I think this should be a concern. I doubt it would be a problem in a pond filled with predators like BG and LMB.

To attain these standing weights PK must be harvesting primary production to some degree. I would think they might harvest decaying phytoplankton in addition to the periphyton they are known to harvest. One poster describes the water boiling with them, so maybe they harvest live phytoplankton too while free swimming. If so they would have an effect similar to tilapia in that they can reduce nighttime respiration O2 drawdowns. Don't know because there is little research on them. If they feed on phytoplankton, PK would compete directly with Nile and Blue tilapia and when in combination would reduce tilapia benefits to large LMB but would benefit LMB recruitment and BG.


The predators were limited in Swingle's trials and so one shouldn't expect the same standing weights. There was little difference between fertilized and fertilized and brush in the production of BG. At the rate he stocked, the BG were getting all they could eat without the brush. This tells me that PK were limited by habitat not by BG or fertility (in his trial).

There is a lot to glean from this paper. I find myself going back to read it or portions of it frequently.

Last edited by jpsdad; 10/30/18 11:16 AM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
jpsdad - thanks a lot for providing the link to the grass shrimp paper/study.


Most welcome Bill.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
Originally Posted By: anthropic


I cannot imagine how many PK it would take to add up to 1,000 lbs shocked



somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.36 million shocked


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
Here is an old thread on PK shrimp.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=371764

Just a FYI. Can't remember if there's anything useful for growing them or not.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46
W
Offline
W
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46
Any thoughts on how scuds compare to PK shrimp as far nutritional value, etc?? If they are close to the same then maybe they are a viable substitute. I have heard they are very easy to raise if PK wind up being difficult.

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 10/30/18 04:19 PM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
I put PK shrimp in my forage pond two or three years back and see no sign of them any more. The first year I would catch one in a minnow trap once in a while.

I just did not have adequate cover for them, in my opinion. I think the fish eventually extirpated them.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 904
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 904
Likes: 1
I put ghost shrimp in my big pond about 5-6 years ago, really expecting them to not make it. My shoreline is fairly steep in most places so the percentage of weedy cover is low as compared to the entire BOW.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine and his boy were fishing in that pond and the boy had a fine dip net he was horsing around with in the shallows....lo and behold he was hauling in shrimp left and right!!

Guess they did just fine.


Dale

[Linked Image from i90.photobucket.com]

"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/28/24 02:50 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 02:50 PM
1 year after stocking question
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/28/24 02:44 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Sunil - 03/28/24 12:39 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5