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#497944 - 10/26/18 02:37 PM Somebody has had this issue before..right?
tallryan610 Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 50
Loc: Kansas City, MO
Here is a BG HBG issue I've been having. They don't like to bite on live worms, crickets, plastic lures, or even Stubby Steves. If I throw out some AquaMax they hit it pretty hard. I only feed once a day right now, and I don't overfeed IMO (maybe 1/2 a solo cup of feed at a time). I have tried really small hooks which I don't like because they can get them deep if I don't set the hook at the right time which when fishing with a 5 year old can be difficult.

Any suggestions? I hate to stop feeding because they are really growing well.


Edited by tallryan610 (10/26/18 02:38 PM)

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#497946 - 10/26/18 03:35 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
The only thing I have caught my HBG with are small white rooster-tails and a medium sized hook with a pinch off an old small purple plastic worm (a home-made stubby steve's). I have not tried anything else however. I have had better luck with the small spinners. My HBG are about a 1/4 pound, still pretty small.

I feel left out when mid-westerners talk about their fish still feeding, mine stopped noticeably feeding a week or so ago and they actually slowed down long before that. My water temps are 55 top to bottom, but no top water takers, just FHM's. Hmmmm?
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#497948 - 10/26/18 04:05 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
tallryan610 Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 50
Loc: Kansas City, MO
They are still feeding pretty heavy here, bass are biting a little better too. We also had 4' of water (13" of rain) added to the pond about a week and a half ago so everything went through a major change. Water temp is mid to upper 50s. We have warm weather predicted for all next week.

Attached as some good examples of ones I stocked this spring or maybe from last fall.


Attachments
IMG_2157.JPG (76 downloads)
Image-1.jpg (60 downloads)
IMG_1783.JPG (63 downloads)
IMG_2157.JPG (68 downloads)



Edited by tallryan610 (10/26/18 04:16 PM)

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#497949 - 10/26/18 04:23 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
tallryan610 Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 50
Loc: Kansas City, MO
One of the original fish from when we bought the place


Attachments
IMG_0545.JPG (97 downloads)


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#497960 - 10/26/18 10:41 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
SENKOSAM Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
nice topic.


Edited by SENKOSAM (10/27/18 09:02 AM)

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#497963 - 10/26/18 11:29 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
The fish the young man is holding looks like a hybrid cross between a BG and RES.

Try 1/64 oz jig hooks. I find pan fish are lots less likely to swallow them as opposed to regular fish hooks. I also like the way they present the bait better. Tip them with Gulp Alive brand artificial chartreuse waxies or a quarter to half inch long piece of the Gulp Alive worms. If the bite is really tough go to thin slivers of cut bait on the jig hook.

That is what I have good luck with in cold water.


Edited by snrub (10/26/18 11:45 PM)
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#497964 - 10/27/18 03:31 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: snrub]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1456
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: snrub
The fish the young man is holding looks like a hybrid cross between a BG and RES.

Try 1/64 oz jig hooks. I find pan fish are lots less likely to swallow them as opposed to regular fish hooks. I also like the way they present the bait better. Tip them with Gulp Alive brand artificial chartreuse waxies or a quarter to half inch long piece of the Gulp Alive worms. If the bite is really tough go to thin slivers of cut bait on the jig hook.

That is what I have good luck with in cold water.


John, do you find that the cold water bite is best when visibility is pretty clear, and worst in muddy water?
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

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#497966 - 10/27/18 07:21 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
And don't forget the Gulp waxies in white. I use two of them on my jig. This time a year I will use a 1/32 oz jig head because of the lower water temps move the fish a little deeper and deeper is where my larger cnbg hang out. Unless the feeder is going off smile

When my water is off color like kinda of muddy, I will use pink or bubblegum colored baits if I am fishing around six foot deep or less and black when fishing deeper.


Edited by TGW1 (10/27/18 07:24 AM)
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#497969 - 10/27/18 07:54 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Noel, I think I've been trying to figure out why fish won't bite for most of my life.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#497971 - 10/27/18 08:38 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
I hear you Dave!
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#497972 - 10/27/18 10:15 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: anthropic]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Originally Posted By: snrub
The fish the young man is holding looks like a hybrid cross between a BG and RES.

Try 1/64 oz jig hooks. I find pan fish are lots less likely to swallow them as opposed to regular fish hooks. I also like the way they present the bait better. Tip them with Gulp Alive brand artificial chartreuse waxies or a quarter to half inch long piece of the Gulp Alive worms. If the bite is really tough go to thin slivers of cut bait on the jig hook.

That is what I have good luck with in cold water.


John, do you find that the cold water bite is best when visibility is pretty clear, and worst in muddy water?


I can not say for sure but I do know if I get rain that causes turbidity both the feeding and the bite can be off a day or two. I do not know if that is because of the water clarity or barometric pressure or some other weather feature or what. But I do notice a tougher bite in those conditions. Then is when I sometimes go to a thin sliver of cut bait or a shiner. I suspect live worms or other live bait would also work but it has been a couple years since I used live worms. Since John F introduced me to the Gulp Waxies I find using the artificial Gulp baits stay on the hook so much better than live bait so I use it most of the time. I can often catch 8 or 10 fish before having to re-bait. With live worms it seems like it was almost every cast if I did not catch a fish a small BG would suck or eat the worm off the hook.

Another Gulp product I have found that works well when the bite is tougher is the small 1" Gulp Minnow. They do not stay on the hook as well as the Waxies (so are not as convenient and more expensive to use), maybe only twice as good as live bait, but I find fish will bite them when they sometimes will not bite my other offerings. The Gulp Maggots I also use but they only last about half as long on the hook as the Waxies so the Waxies are my preferred bait. I will use a single one most of the time but sometimes two.

It is important to point out that I have only been fishing very much for about four years. So I am by no means an expert at angling. This is just the way I have been pretty successful most of the time catching BG in my pond. I fish nowhere other than my ponds so results elsewhere may vary.

Edit: here is a picture posted in another thread of a SMB caught on a jig head tipped with a Gulp chartreuse Waxie. small SMB caught on Gulp Waxie I think that is a 1/64 oz jig or maybe even lighter. If the bite is tough I do not use a swivel. I just happen to have one on that day as I was using other lures at times.


Edited by snrub (10/27/18 11:20 AM)
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#497996 - 10/28/18 10:52 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
The last pic does look like a BG X RES.

HBG should be aggressive and easy to catch (subject to temps) while other crosses are not a easily catchability.

Anyone have thoughts on the catchability of BG X GSF vs other lepomis crosses ?

My experience is that BG X RES are a bit larger but they are not as catchable as HBG (BG X GSF). Still a good catchable fish but not as aggressive as HBG.


----------------------------------------------------

Some info from a prior post.

North American Journal of Fisheries Managemen6t: 156-167, 1986

¸ Copyright by the American Fisheries Society1 986

Evaluation of Male Bluegill X Female Green Sunfish Hybrids for

Stocking Mississippi Farm Ponds

MARTIN W. BRUNSON and H. RANDALL ROBINETTE






The use of hybrid sunfishes in ponds has been

suggested as an attractive alternative to the more

traditional stocking policies involving the bluegill

(Lepomism acrochirus) or redears unfish( Lepomis

microlophus), or both, in combination with the

largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides) (Lewis

and Heidinger 1978a).



Ellison and Heidinger

(1978) surveyed 30 privately owned hybrid

sunfish ponds in southern Illinois and determined

that the presence of largemouth bass and supplemental

feeding were the two most important variables

related to growth of hybrids.



Growth of redear

sunfish x green sunfish and bluegill x green

sunfish (BG x GS) hybrids exceeded the average

growth for bluegill in Illinois (Lopinot 1972). The

BG x GS hybrids reached an acceptable catch size

in a shorter time than channel catfish (Ictalurus

punctatus), and they were easier to catch where

both were stocked for recreational fishing.



Several hybrid combinations have been recognized

as having potential in pond management

(Lewis and Heidinger 1978b), but the BG x GS

hybrid appears to have the most attractive combination

of desirable attributes. Like other hybrids,

the BG x GS hybrid exhibits rapid growth

(Childers 1967; Ellison and Heidinger 1978) and

probable hybrid vigor (Brunson and Robinette

1985), produces mostly males (Childers and Bennett

1961; Laarman 1973; Brunson 1983), and is

highly vulnerable to capture by hook and line

(Henderson and Whiteside 1976; Crandall and

Durocher 1980; Brunson 1983). Only the BG x

GS hybrid, however, is well suited to artificial

feeding (Lewis and Heidinger 1978a) and frequents

shallow water areas, where it may be more

accessible to the pond angler than some other hybrids.

The BG x GS hybrid is probably the most

common commercially produced hybrid sunfish

in the southeastern United States.



From an angler's viewpoint, increased growth is

highly desirable.H owever, perhapsm ore important

to the angler is the presumed high catchability of

hybrid sunfish. This vulnerability to hook-andline

capture has been alluded to by many authors

but relatively few experimental data exist to substantiate

such statements. Childers (1967) cited

one instance where a population of more than

10,000 BG x GS hybrids was decimated by anglers

during the first week of fishing. Childers and

Bennett (1967) reported hook-and-line yields in a

0.4-hectare pond stocked with redear x green sunfish

hybrids and largemouth bass that surpassed

those of comparably fished bluegill ponds. They

concluded that hybrids were more aggressive, less

wary, and less able to learn how to avoid being

caught than their parent species. Henderson and

Whiteside (1976) confirmed the vulnerability of

hybrids to angling, and Ellison and Heidinger

(1978) reported that hybrid sunfish were much

easier to catch than channel catfish when both were

stocked for recreational fishing. They also confirmed

the aggressivenesos f hybrid sunfisha s reported

by swimmers who were nipped by these

fish. Crandall and Durocher (1980) reported that

catchability of the BG x GS hybrid was significantly

higher than that ofbluegill x redear sunfish

or green x redear sunfish hybrids.

Other than theses tudies,t he literature on hybrid

sunfishes is the result of laboratory or controlled,

short-term pond studies with relatively narrow objectives.

The total catch of

146 hybrids during the 2-h period was 21% of the

population.



These high catch rates,

especially at Britt Pond, once again confirm the

aggressivenessa nd vulnerability of the BG x GS

hybrid, and point to the importance of strict control

of harvest in hybrid ponds. Especially significant

is the effect that poachers can have on a

hybrid population.



Though hybrid sunfish are not a panacea

for all farm pond management problems, they can

be used under certain conditions to produce desirable

populations of rapidly growing fish. With

a rapid growth rate, low population fecundity, and

high catchability, these fish can be used to create

high quality bream fishing when properly managed


Edited by ewest (10/28/18 10:58 AM)
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#497999 - 10/28/18 11:47 AM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: ewest]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Wow! 21% in two hours.

I know when I first started fishing my main pond and discovered there were a few hybrids mixed in with my initial stocking (IIRC about 30 were caught) it was not long before I "fished them out". It soon got to where I no longer caught any more. (I transferred all I caught to my old pond).

About the time I "got rid of them", I decided I really did like the HBG as I kept catching them and they were growing great in my old pond.

Since then I have introduced thousands of home grown hybrids (both HBG and RESxGSF hybrids as well as a rare BGxRES) in my main pond and catch and fillet many annually. The hybrids come primarily from my sediment and forage ponds where they seem to be produced naturally in significant numbers.

I really like the hybrids. But then I'm a mutt kind of a guy. grin


Edited by snrub (10/28/18 11:49 AM)
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#498003 - 10/28/18 01:33 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: tallryan610]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
My sense of GSF and hybrids of them is that they are not as efficient at foraging zooplankton (which even harvest size BG are). They prefer the larger kinds of forage like FHM, YOY fry, Gambusia, crayfish, larger aquatic insects, etc. If these are plentiful, they will grow much better. I can see where they would need feed more so than BG which can feed at lower trophic levels than GSF and their hybrids.

One thing I notice about BG is that they will approach a fly, inspect it, at which point they will either suck it in or move on. A green sunfish or hybrid just attacks them. They can also be caught repeatedly.


Edited by jpsdad (10/28/18 01:40 PM)

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#498007 - 10/28/18 03:38 PM Re: Somebody has had this issue before..right? [Re: jpsdad]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
That would seem to make sense that the GSF have a large mouth and the BG have small mouth for a reason. Interesting information about BG being more adapted at harvesting zooplankton.

The GSF and their hybrids are definitely fish food pellet chow hounds. If I fish after feeding and catch one they are almost always stuffed to the gills, so to speak. They get more than their fair share of the pellets.
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