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Joined: Aug 2017
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OP
Joined: Aug 2017
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We are doing an experiment on Largemouth Bass and Spotted Bass where we are pushing them to large size using a commercial diet. Something that is popping out quickly between those getting feed and those eating forage is coloration. I am liking the looks of the forage fed fish over the feed fed even though the latter are growing much faster.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: Jun 2016
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I always had better aquarium fish coloration when I used the Tetramin brand fish food compared to the cheaper stuff. I wonder if the aquarium fish foods are loaded with extra magic ingredients because color is much more important in the tropical fish hobby?
Fish on!, Noel
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OP
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Color is getting to be important to me on the big fish side to. More than just color may be a problem when color not right.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: Aug 2017
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OP
Joined: Aug 2017
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Check it out. We are doing another experiment in parallel that may be used to explore this further. Fish are of same cohort with fish on left fed a formulated diet while those on right are on forage dominated by invertebrates.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: May 2011
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Can you share what you hope to learn from this experiment?
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The experiment part is looking at ways to reduce cost of growing bass to 2 lbs. The methods in use currently producing changes that some pond managers not excited about when looks and other non-culinary considerations are involved.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Jim, are the pictured lmb the same age and are they in the same environment? And are the Northern's pictured on the left? In growing out Florida' in with high forage amounts of FHM's and BG along with RES and TFS, I saw some of the fish grow to 3 lbs from, 2" fingerlings in just 10 months here in Texas. Not all of them grew that fast but some of them did. Today, I am hand feeding some NLMB (not from fingerlings) with those same Florida and their growth has been outstanding, I think.
Last edited by TGW1; 10/23/18 03:16 PM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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All same age in same pond.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: Sep 2014
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From my exp. Spotted bass have most always been colored different and with more vibrant markings over Northerns. I assumed it was because I caught most of the spots near deeper water and in water with less color. But what I am seeing here, it may be due to what they eat?
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the fish on live forage need to be more aggressive to get a meal and display more color as a result. Those fish on commercial food have no need to be aggressive or expend energy to catch a pellet.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: May 2018
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Jim,
You mentioned that the smaller fish were raised on invertebrates. They are big enough to be eating fish so what are you feeding them BSF, earthworms, crickets? If the formulated feed includes fish meal it might explain a lot of the difference in growth rates.
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
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Lunker
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Lunker
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my lmb are f1's (tiger bass from american sportfish). i have noticed right opposite as far as color goes. my lmb that take pellets have much more pronounced color contrast than the the ones that won't take pellets.
this is a very neat experiment you have going Jim. I hope you keep us updated.
Scott Hanners
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the fish on live forage need to be more aggressive to get a meal and display more color as a result. Those fish on commercial food have no need to be aggressive or expend energy to catch a pellet. It could also be that the fish on live forage are getting some micronutrients that the commercial food lacks. I had the same dull off colored look with a group of RES sunfish that I feed trained last year.
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: May 2014
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When he was sorting through the LMB from the electrofishing survey at my pond, Justin Stane made a similar observation. He could tell the difference between those that had hit the feed hard and those that had not just by their color differences.
Last edited by anthropic; 10/24/18 12:52 AM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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Jim, are the pellet fed fish able to get any forage or only pellets? It would also be interesting if you could observe results over a life span. I wonder if the nutrient enriched quick growth could also mean a shorter life span.
Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 10/24/18 03:04 AM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Aug 2017
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OP
Joined: Aug 2017
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Fish I am looking at directly are LMB's. Today we will see a similar pairing of spotted bass as well as more LMB's. Thus far with the LMB's all have access to forage and feed in a given pond. Some appear to specialize on pellets while other on forage. The second pond we saw much less size disparity between the two groups but color holds. Difference in color I think owing to micronutrient level (forms of vitamin A in this case). Other differences also noteworthy, but not being looked at directly at this time. Innards and jaws appear different. I can tell if a fish is on pellets or fish my feel alone, even when size not an issue. These differences might have implications on long-term survival.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
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Jim W - Excellent information and a great study. Glad you shared the info. Is it possible to provide a good picture of the "Innards" of both pellet fed and natural food fed bass? Try to make the amount of fat and liver color visible. Thanks again for doing this great practical application study.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Joined: Aug 2017
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OP
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This will tickle you. Can you spot the fish feeding predominantly on feed? All from same pond. Top are on feed. Note very large and pale livers plus lost of visceral fat. No digesta in GIT. Lower are on natural forage. Note darker and smaller liver with much less visceral fat. Stomach loaded with invertebrate prey. My keyboard now smells like fish guts.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
what type of feed was used?
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
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Feed used is commercial formulated for Rainbow Trout. Most feeds will promote the problem.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,139 Likes: 488 |
JW Thanks for the great educational photos.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Joined: Jun 2016
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Joined: Jun 2016
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If your keyboard smells bad...I can only imagine what you smell like. Thanks for the sacrifice! Very cool projects... Are you hiring?
Fish on!, Noel
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
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Looking for motivated undergraduate research assistant.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
Wish they had fishery studies when I was in college.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168 |
We do not do fisheries stuff here. Aquaculture with a little non-game fish biology.
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