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#497819 - 10/23/18 12:50 PM Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
We are doing an experiment on Largemouth Bass and Spotted Bass where we are pushing them to large size using a commercial diet. Something that is popping out quickly between those getting feed and those eating forage is coloration. I am liking the looks of the forage fed fish over the feed fed even though the latter are growing much faster.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497822 - 10/23/18 02:24 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1409
Loc: West Central Missouri
I always had better aquarium fish coloration when I used the Tetramin brand fish food compared to the cheaper stuff. I wonder if the aquarium fish foods are loaded with extra magic ingredients because color is much more important in the tropical fish hobby?
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#497824 - 10/23/18 03:16 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Color is getting to be important to me on the big fish side to. More than just color may be a problem when color not right.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497825 - 10/23/18 03:28 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Check it out. We are doing another experiment in parallel that may be used to explore this further. Fish are of same cohort with fish on left fed a formulated diet while those on right are on forage dominated by invertebrates.


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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497826 - 10/23/18 03:40 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1509
Loc: Central Kansas
Can you share what you hope to learn from this experiment?

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#497829 - 10/23/18 03:59 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
The experiment part is looking at ways to reduce cost of growing bass to 2 lbs. The methods in use currently producing changes that some pond managers not excited about when looks and other non-culinary considerations are involved.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497831 - 10/23/18 04:10 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2826
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Jim, are the pictured lmb the same age and are they in the same environment? And are the Northern's pictured on the left? In growing out Florida' in with high forage amounts of FHM's and BG along with RES and TFS, I saw some of the fish grow to 3 lbs from, 2" fingerlings in just 10 months here in Texas. Not all of them grew that fast but some of them did. Today, I am hand feeding some NLMB (not from fingerlings) with those same Florida and their growth has been outstanding, I think.


Edited by TGW1 (10/23/18 04:16 PM)
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#497833 - 10/23/18 04:16 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
All same age in same pond.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497834 - 10/23/18 04:22 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2826
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
From my exp. Spotted bass have most always been colored different and with more vibrant markings over Northerns. I assumed it was because I caught most of the spots near deeper water and in water with less color. But what I am seeing here, it may be due to what they eat?
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#497841 - 10/23/18 05:17 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5876
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the fish on live forage need to be more aggressive to get a meal and display more color as a result. Those fish on commercial food have no need to be aggressive or expend energy to catch a pellet.
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#497842 - 10/23/18 05:39 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 281
Loc: Texas
Jim,

You mentioned that the smaller fish were raised on invertebrates. They are big enough to be eating fish so what are you feeding them BSF, earthworms, crickets? If the formulated feed includes fish meal it might explain a lot of the difference in growth rates.

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#497845 - 10/23/18 08:57 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
scott69 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1086
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
my lmb are f1's (tiger bass from american sportfish). i have noticed right opposite as far as color goes. my lmb that take pellets have much more pronounced color contrast than the the ones that won't take pellets.

this is a very neat experiment you have going Jim. I hope you keep us updated.
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#497846 - 10/23/18 08:59 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Bill D.]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4384
Loc: Raymond, NE
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the fish on live forage need to be more aggressive to get a meal and display more color as a result. Those fish on commercial food have no need to be aggressive or expend energy to catch a pellet.


It could also be that the fish on live forage are getting some micronutrients that the commercial food lacks. I had the same dull off colored look with a group of RES sunfish that I feed trained last year.
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#497853 - 10/24/18 01:30 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1837
Loc: East Texas, USA
When he was sorting through the LMB from the electrofishing survey at my pond, Justin Stane made a similar observation. He could tell the difference between those that had hit the feed hard and those that had not just by their color differences.


Edited by anthropic (10/24/18 01:52 AM)
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8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#497855 - 10/24/18 04:00 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13982
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Jim, are the pellet fed fish able to get any forage or only pellets? It would also be interesting if you could observe results over a life span. I wonder if the nutrient enriched quick growth could also mean a shorter life span.


Edited by Dave Davidson1 (10/24/18 04:04 AM)
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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#497861 - 10/24/18 10:16 AM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Fish I am looking at directly are LMB's. Today we will see a similar pairing of spotted bass as well as more LMB's. Thus far with the LMB's all have access to forage and feed in a given pond. Some appear to specialize on pellets while other on forage. The second pond we saw much less size disparity between the two groups but color holds. Difference in color I think owing to micronutrient level (forms of vitamin A in this case). Other differences also noteworthy, but not being looked at directly at this time. Innards and jaws appear different. I can tell if a fish is on pellets or fish my feel alone, even when size not an issue. These differences might have implications on long-term survival.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497865 - 10/24/18 03:30 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12889
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Jim W - Excellent information and a great study. Glad you shared the info. Is it possible to provide a good picture of the "Innards" of both pellet fed and natural food fed bass? Try to make the amount of fat and liver color visible. Thanks again for doing this great practical application study.
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#497871 - 10/24/18 05:00 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 379
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
This will tickle you.


Can you spot the fish feeding predominantly on feed? All from same pond.


Top are on feed. Note very large and pale livers plus lost of visceral fat. No digesta in GIT. Lower are on natural forage. Note darker and smaller liver with much less visceral fat. Stomach loaded with invertebrate prey.




My keyboard now smells like fish guts.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#497875 - 10/24/18 06:16 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1837
Loc: East Texas, USA
what type of feed was used?
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8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#497876 - 10/24/18 07:08 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 168
Loc: .
Feed used is commercial formulated for Rainbow Trout. Most feeds will promote the problem.

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#497878 - 10/24/18 09:11 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Bill Cody Offline
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12889
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
JW Thanks for the great educational photos.
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#497879 - 10/24/18 09:33 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1409
Loc: West Central Missouri
If your keyboard smells bad...I can only imagine what you smell like. Thanks for the sacrifice! Very cool projects... Are you hiring?
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Fish on!,
Noel

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#497880 - 10/24/18 09:36 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 168
Loc: .
Looking for motivated undergraduate research assistant.

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#497882 - 10/24/18 10:03 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Centrarchid]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1837
Loc: East Texas, USA
Wish they had fishery studies when I was in college. smile
_________________________
8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#497883 - 10/24/18 10:12 PM Re: Observation on Feed Fed Largemouth Bass [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 168
Loc: .
We do not do fisheries stuff here. Aquaculture with a little non-game fish biology.

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