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#495947 - 09/06/18 04:51 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
It'll be interesting to hear his input.

Did a bit of researching on hatcheries that deal in YP. Seems the going rate for late season fish big enough to stock would be $2+/Fish, but I wouldn't want many anyway.

Then there's the matter of whether the state would allow them to be stocked. I know TP are banned here.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495948 - 09/06/18 07:19 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Mike, there are some yp in Florida that may be temperature tolerant to our warmer waters. If memory serves me, they are found in places where there are underground springs that contribute to the waters where they are found. And it might have something to do with the supply of some cooler water from those springs. Even though most underground springs in Florida have warmer water temps than one might think. I am not aware of any supplier from that part of the country, based on past discussions. But if you were to take a trip and return with some, there are a couple of us who would be interested in trying to help you out and take some off your hands for researching how they might do in and around here smile
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
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#495950 - 09/06/18 08:15 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Clay N' Pray Offline


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 194
Loc: Caswell co NC
A little off topic, but is there a reason that no one is interested in white perch?
They definitely eat better than yellow, and grow larger.
Are they even less tolerant of temps?
They are almost always found in the same BOW with yellows in New England.

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#495951 - 09/06/18 08:21 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
I've heard that too and I suspect those BOWs, being spring fed, are able to sustain relatively cooler temps (60s maybe) that are considerably cooler than my summer temps (88 recently). And they're likely considerably deeper. I just don't think they'll be able to thrive in this water.

I've accidentally caught a few in the Tennessee river system. But those impoundments are DEEP!! (Watts Bar has 200 feet in places.) and also maintains healthy populations of Sauger (southern Walleye).

I'm only running aeration 6 hours (2a-8a) until my surface temps drop enough to prevent super heating my mutt puddle now.

Now that I've totally hijacked this thread....back to our regularly scheduled programming!!


Edited by Mike Whatley (09/06/18 08:32 AM)
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495953 - 09/06/18 08:27 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: Clay N' Pray]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Originally Posted By: Clay N' Pray
A little off topic, but is there a reason that no one is interested in white perch?
They definitely eat better than yellow, and grow larger.
Are they even less tolerant of temps?
They are almost always found in the same BOW with yellows in New England.


Down here, White perch is a Crappie. So maybe it's because we understand it takes a pretty good sized pond to have white perch where yellows do not need that large body of water?
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#495954 - 09/06/18 08:37 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
White perch, particularly white crappie will absolutely over populate in a heart beat as well. Black crappie, for some reason, aren't as prolific as the white species, and they get bigger!!
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495956 - 09/06/18 08:49 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: TGW1]
Clay N' Pray Offline


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 194
Loc: Caswell co NC
Originally Posted By: TGW1
Originally Posted By: Clay N' Pray
A little off topic, but is there a reason that no one is interested in white perch?
They definitely eat better than yellow, and grow larger.
Are they even less tolerant of temps?
They are almost always found in the same BOW with yellows in New England.


Down here, White perch is a Crappie. So maybe it's because we understand it takes a pretty good sized pond to have white perch where yellows do not need that large body of water?


Google to the rescue...
Learn something new every time I log onto PB.


"White Perch are actually a member of the temperate bass family, like a Striped Bass or White Bass, & not a true "perch"
Crappie are a member of the Sunfish family, along with Largemouth/Smallmouth/Spotted Bass & Bluegill."


Edited by Clay N' Pray (09/06/18 08:49 AM)

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#495958 - 09/06/18 10:21 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: Clay N' Pray]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Hijacked threads are where you learn something new! grin


Attachments
20180830_184437.jpg (77 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid


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#495962 - 09/06/18 12:27 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
Handsome little greenie John!!

Crazy notions are always creeping into my scattered brain. My latest is how well Tiger Oscars would do in a deep south pond...lol. They can get up to 15" and over 3 lbs in the right conditions. The female only lays between 1000-3000 eggs, but they pull double duty guarding the fry so recruitment would be minimal at best.

Very aggressive predators, with a gape big enough to definitely handle smaller BG, tho a 3 pounder would likely be able to handle 2-3" forage.

Hmmmm
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495963 - 09/06/18 12:36 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
Fishing for Tiger Oscars would be a blast! We need a volunteer from South Texas...anybody?
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#495965 - 09/06/18 12:53 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
You can buy them all day long at Wal-Mart for about $.25/ea. Would just have to tank raise them to be big enough to release in the pond. Serious consideration!!!!
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495966 - 09/06/18 01:14 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: Mike Whatley]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
It could be a pure GSF but I don't think so. I caught a couple pure GSF near the same time. Too tall and too thin (not wide enough body). Can't tell the width by the picuture but in hand there is a distinct difference between the hybrids and the pure GSF.

But in the picture it does look GSF'y
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#495976 - 09/06/18 04:28 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
I was going by what I've caught in my pond. With only NBG and GSF as my primary sunfush, I don't "think" I've had much opportunity for crossing as my water stays relatively clear(16-40 inches depending on time of year). It looks exactly like those I've got my hands on.

Edit: upon second look at the picture, it could be a RES/GSF cross. A lot of specks on its side and that hint of orange on the opercule.


Edited by Mike Whatley (09/06/18 04:31 PM)
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495982 - 09/06/18 07:55 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: Quarter Acre]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 532
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Fishing for Tiger Oscars would be a blast! We need a volunteer from South Texas...anybody?


I laughingly told the wife about my crazy Tiger Oscar idea. Her reply was "You know they'll all get ate!" Then I explained I would have to tank raise them till they got big enough.....she didn't say no!!!

Think I'll start pricing aquariums....lol.

Edit:
After further research reading, Oscars are a pipe dream for this area. While they've been known to thrive in the everglades, even southern Louisiana gets too cold. Guess it's gonna have to be a south Texas/Florida adventure.


Edited by Mike Whatley (09/06/18 09:20 PM)
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#496534 - 09/18/18 05:33 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: snrub
It could be a pure GSF but I don't think so. . .


Totally agree. So an update. A couple of weekends ago I caught a few of them for bait (6 + inchers). It was big bait and I was after big fish as I am trying to catch a couple 25"+ CC I've been seeing in one pond. I had 8 left when I quit and released them. Now here's the rub.

I've caught and released maybe all of them since then. Last night, I think I caught seven of them ... though perhaps I might have caught a couple twice. They are thin and much easier to catch than the bluegill that are in the pond, a handful of which are large >10". YOY in this BOW achieved > 6" this year. I think the hybrids will be a good indicator as to when, if at all, someone comes through harvesting panfish on this BOW.

John, are you finding snails in them? I am. RESXGSF definitely eat them.


Edited by jpsdad (09/19/18 08:51 AM)

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#496548 - 09/18/18 10:27 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: jpsdad]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
The hybrids are definitely aggressive towards a hook. There are days when I think my BG are just as aggressive. But day after day, when the BG are not particularly aggressive, the hybrids still are.

Very often when first fishing a spot on the bank, 3 out of four fish I catch are hybrids. Then I start catching BG. But when I feed I can see the hybrids because of the very visible tail margin. Very small percentage are hybrids.

Here are a couple from my RES/SMB pond. Not supposed to be any GSF genes in that pond, but I have been catching a few. Could have been some contamination in the fish I stocked from a fish farm. Or could have been some mistakes when I was moving RES fingerlings from my forage pond. I caught 3 altogether but just took pics of two. The markings on all three were nearly identical and size similar (making me wonder if they came from the same brood) and really have a distinctive RES opercular. But they have the green cheek bars (along with the yellow mottled RES cheeks) and a short pectoral fin resembling a GSF.

Really pretty fish I think. But I moved them out of my RES pond because I am trying to keep it pure RES.

I've not cut the gut open on any to check for snails. Guess I should.


Attachments
20180917_181624.jpg (77 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid 1

20180917_181735.jpg (72 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid 2




Edited by snrub (09/18/18 10:38 PM)
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#496557 - 09/19/18 06:53 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
I would like to know the percentage of them in the pond where they proliferate. I can't say with any certainty what it may be. Competition in this BOW for food resources is something fierce. The RW is poor. I do think there is a survival advantage for the hybrids. This may in part arise from their snail eating behavior. Hybrid vigor and the larger gape play a role as well.

A panfish that can utilize virtually every available food source is interesting particularly under a put and take system. Where they remain resistant to hook intelligence, the fishing and individual growth would be excellent. I wonder how large this hybrid can get?


Edited by jpsdad (09/19/18 08:54 AM)

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#496570 - 09/19/18 10:04 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: jpsdad]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
In my main 3 acre pond I think I get very little hybridization. The way the hybrids get there are from my sediment pond above it. In the sediment pond there are periods of turbidity and large inflows of water. There are also GSF which seem to tolerate severe conditions a lot better than other more desirable fishes. Could explain why the vast majority of sun fish in local creeks and streams are GSF. Very few BG caught. At least that is the way it was as a kid. Hardly fish anything other than my pond now. We used to call GSF other names when I was a kid simply mistaking fish in spawning colors by their coloration. We didn't know how little we knew. grin

So my sediment pond seems to be good conditions for the hybridization to occur. As I fish it to cull fish I still get a number of HBG YOY from the catch. Much smaller numbers of the RESxGSF but really hard to tell when fish are small. Most of my RESxGSF hybrids come from my forage pond where there are no BG present.

PBF Sept 22, 2018 get together


Edited by snrub (09/19/18 10:09 AM)
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#496610 - 09/20/18 07:38 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13597
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
More desirable fish than GSF?
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Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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#496614 - 09/20/18 09:52 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
That might depend on who is desiring smile.

The problem with hybrids is that they are only available from hatcheries as small fingerlings and can't be added to existing populations of fish with the expectation of good survival. If they could be sourced at 5 to 6 inches they would be far more interesting.

For the production of large panfish, their incapacity to reproduce in the presence of LMB is a plus I think but only if one has a source of replacements that exceed the gape of most of the BOW's LMB.

Speaking of GSF take a look at this one I caught a few days ago. My hand from wrist to tip of second finger is ~7". This one is about 9" and caught on a popper.



Attachments
GSF.jpg (67 downloads)



Edited by jpsdad (09/20/18 10:09 AM)

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#496615 - 09/20/18 09:56 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
More desirable fish than GSF?


Only in the eyes of the uninformed Dave. Only in the eyes of the uninformed.

But a person has to be careful in choosing his words, lest the unwashed GSF haters throw us to the lions. It is a select few that can walk the walk of the GSF Fan Club. grin


Edited by snrub (09/20/18 10:43 AM)
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#496616 - 09/20/18 09:58 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: jpsdad]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
That is a chubby little fella jpsdad. I see you have the same problem I have trying to get the fish to pose for a picture.


Edited by snrub (09/20/18 10:41 AM)
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#496620 - 09/20/18 10:11 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: snrub
That is a chubby little fella jpsdad. I sae you have the same problem I have trying to get the fish to pose for a picture.


LOL! Though proud of the fish I am embarrassed of the photo. I just wanted to get it back into to the water!

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#496629 - 09/20/18 10:48 AM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: snrub]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Those are healthy fish.
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#497737 - 10/20/18 11:33 PM Re: RESxGSF hybrid [Re: ewest]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
My forage pond is only 1/20th acre and very fertile. Every fall I reduce the biomass so the remaining fish will make it through the winter well and have room to grow the next spring. I accomplish this by trapping, angling and cast net over a period of a couple months.

Was throwing the cast net today and moving GSH, RES and a few RESxGSF hybrids over to my main pond. Ran across several of the hybrids so thought I would add the pictures to this thread. They are pictured beside pure RES for reference. Although some may look like the same fish each picture are of fish from different cast net throws. There are no BG in this pond so I know the fish can only be RES or GSF or some combination thereof.

Edit: I'll add one more picture. The last picture I can't decide if it is a pure GSF next to the RES or if it is a hybrid and perhaps an F2 with a lot of GSF characteristics. I think it is a pure GSF. It went to the fillet holding pen.


Attachments
20181020_170937.jpg (38 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid along side a pure RES

20181020_165726.jpg (33 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid in between two RES

20181020_165336.jpg (36 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid in the middle between two RES

20181020_165021.jpg (35 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid is the big one. The other two RES

20181020_171649.jpg (39 downloads)
Description: Pure GSF or hybrid with lots of GSF genes???




Edited by snrub (10/21/18 12:02 AM)
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