Personally, I'd rather use aluminum sulfate and hydrated lime to change the ionic balance in the pond water than put topsoil into the pond. The potential excess nutrient problems associated with the topsoil is what I'd try to avoid.
I am finding alot of information on using ag lime to help with the water clarity on an existing pond. But nothing on a freshly built pond that is dry.
Would it be a good idea to apply the ag lime to the bottom of the pond now? And how much per acre should I be using at a minimum?
I have read that you really can't over do it. I have 4 acres of pond and one dump truck will get me about 15 tons for around $200 delivered.
I have worked in a killer deal for 475 tons of riprap being installed. They are gonna excavate a 1ft deep by 4ft trench around the water line and dump the rip rap in. But I can have them widen it if I need to.
Questions:
How far above full pool level should I have rock exposed?
At full pool, new pond, your water level will likely go down farther than it will go up from the full pool level. Depth the riprap placement varies a lot. I suggest the riprap go downward several feet depending on how you measure the distance on the slope or just by depth. Riprap is often extended down the slope for 7-9ft to 2.5-3ft of water. I prefer to extend it down into deeper water so some riprap is useful when water level goes down 2-3ft during drought periods.
The embankment above the waterline is called free board. Often the riprap extends upward to the top, where the bank levels off, but this varies pond to pond.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
Take a soil sample if you have the time to wait on it and get a recommendation based on the soil acidity and buffer. If you are pressed for time and need to get it applied asap I personally would go with 4 ton per acre or more.
If your rip rap is crushed limestone it will take care of the portion of the pond basin that this stone is covering. Because that stone is what that portion of the water will mostly be in contact with.
If you have an area of inflow where you are afraid a lot of water entering the pond will cause erosion till the pond gets full you might consider dumping and spreading out a pile of lime in this area. Then the erosion is lime into the pond rather than soil.
If you are in an area that has naturally high pH soils (some areas of Kansas do) you may not need lime at all. If you are in an acidic area like I am, it is hard to overdo the lime application.
Good evening everyone! It has been a long year but I finally have some water. Bumping this post up and next week I will be adding about two dozen pics of my progress from the last year.
Fist two pics are of some trenches that I had dug. I know they are going to eventually fill in, I just wanted to changed up the bottom of the fish bowl. The trench is 4ft wide and 4ft deep.
Third pic is a view from the North end. It is a 10:1 slope that has a layer of top soil on it for future plants/structure. Pile of branches/trees are staked down with fence posts and wire and it'll be in about 10-12 feet of water.
Last pic is of my center setup for aeration. I will have a total of three aeration spots once it is complete.
Not pond related. But I got the road installed and has made my life much easier. Access to the pond is seamless now.
Took out the old metal pipe (18") and installed the new one (plastic and 24")
This pic is from behind the dam and shows my extra 6" pvc pipe that I had installed. On the pond side (no pics yet) I plan on having a swiveled stand pipe that I can adjust. This will allow me to lower the water level about 2 feet (if the rip rap and standpipe are installed correctly) and do some shorline maintenance if I want to. If the install is off, then it'll just be used as an extra pipe for drainage during high runoff periods.
The pic only shows one of the two 20 ft sections of 24" pipe installed.
South setup for aeration. I didn't weight this one down as much because I plan on moving it during the winter months.
The next three pics are all of the structure I put in the north end of the pond near the 10:1 slope. There was a Christmas tree farm less than 3 miles away that I used to get the excess trees that he was gonna burn. I'll be hitting him up every year.
I tried to place the pallet stacks about 12-15 feet away from each other in a triangle setup with the christmas trees in between. I learned a hard lesson...
PUT MORE THAN ON BLOCK ON YOUR STACK OF PALLETS!!!!
Some of them floated away when I got my big rain and added 9" feet of water. I bought a pair of waders and fixed the situation, but I wasted an entire day doing so. All of my pallet stacks now have 3 blocks per.
Just some more shots of the structure on the north end of the pond. All of the limbs/trees are staked down and dried out for almost a year before we received any rain. The north end will be a NO SWIMMING area due to the possibility of getting caught.
The last pic kinda shows it all put together from the north shore.
These pics are of the south side structure. Mostly hand built out of pvc and concrete. I tried to set it up so I had fishing lanes from the dam to avoid getting snagged.
The last pic is me standing in the center of the south portion looking East. The south side doesn't have very many 'snagish' structure because the dock will be relatively close. There is also a decent cliff/dropoff of about 4-5 feet that separates it. If you look at the four stack of pallets, they are sitting on the edge of that dropoff. The south side of the pond is the old pond and there will be an aeration setup a few feet north of that drop off.
Almost a full year with out any substantial rain until September! We had about 4-5 days of heavy sprinkles and intermittent showers leading up to the big rain. This helped because I have 2-3 ponds to my north that need to fill up before I get big runoff. I think my 'neck of the woods' received about 4" in under two hours once it finally opened up. I am guessing around 9 feet of water depth from it since I have about 200 acres of runoff that funnels into my pond.
Pic is from the West side of the pond where the dock will be. Notice the INTACT stack of pallets. They just lifted right up and took sail!
Erosion is a real thing by the way! lol. These are pics on the north side where that stack of rip was. The idea original was that it would slow down the flow and create a drop so that the sediment would settle. Not that it is a big deal, but I noticed some small erosion during spring but didnt think anything of it. It turned into ALOT of erosion once the big rain finally hit.
Yes, I forgot to weigh down the north aeration setup. LOL.
Last pic is of that 10:1 area over ran with weeds.
The first week of July when I had about 2 feet of water I put in 1,000 (1.5"-2") golden shiners (Andersons), 2,000 FHM and 400 gambusias. It was a gamble because I didn't know if it could hold water long enough to hit the fall raining season.
After the big rain in early September this is what I saw...
Looks like my FHM found a way to spawn in less than ideal conditions. It is also possible that they are from the ponds up stream. I have since seen hundreds if not thousands of them
Also, last week I put in 100 papershell cray fish from upstate NY as well as 100 brooder sized golden shiners from Andersons. I didn't know if any of the original stocking survived. If they did, then this will give me different classes.
Here is stocking plan going forward. Keep in mind it is just under 4 acres and 12-15 feet at max depth.
July of 18:
2,000 FHM
400 gambusia
1,000 2" golden shiners
September of 18:
100 paper shell crayfish
100 4"+ brooder golden shiners
October of 2018:
800 - 2-4" Bluegill 100 - 4-7" Bluegill
200 - 2-4" RES 100- 4-7" RES
10,000 FHM
Fall of 2019:
150-200 LMB
150-200 HSB
Spring of 2021:
Tilapia
The goal is going to be a semi-trophy LMB and HSB. I am not looking to set records, but I do not want a bunch of stunted bass to catch.
I will not be adding catfish, but I know that there are some from upstream that will eventually make it in.
Without bass being stocked for a year, will my plan work to provide enough bluegill, fhm, and golden shiners?
I do plan on setting up a feeder, but I don't want that to be the foundation for my forage/feed of the bass.
Also, I wanted to thank everyone who has been a contributing member of this community. I have spent the last 18 months lurking and learning. Ya'll have been great! I just hope that this thread can help someone else!
Lots of structure. Do you have all depths covered with structure (surface to bottom)?
I like the groping of structure in groups of 3 or 4 like you used. Always remember with structure placement to think in the vertical dimension as well. Also don't put structure where it will impede emergency outflow.
FH can do well in poor water conditions.
Do you have questions? Make a map of structure post full pool.
Nice looking pond. You mentioned that Catfish will wash in from upstream. I had this happen early on (bull head) and in hind sight I often wonder if I should have stocked a few LMB to keep them from getting out of control. These days I have the bullhead in check but only after lots of trapping / fishing / removal. Might be worth consideration to put in a few LMB of a bigger size.
If catfish come in from above GSF potentially could also.
I stocked BG in early spring and LMB in fall, and my BG got ahead of my LMB and have never had a successful LMB spawn. That might not be a bad thing for trophy LMB but I have had to raise up additional LMB for supplemental stocking. My point is don't let the forage fish get too far ahead of your preaditors if you want a sustainable LMB population. They can get thick enough to inhibit LMB spawning.
Lots of structure. Do you have all depths covered with structure (surface to bottom)?
I like the groping of structure in groups of 3 or 4 like you used. Always remember with structure placement to think in the vertical dimension as well. Also don't put structure where it will impede emergency outflow.
FH can do well in poor water conditions.
Do you have questions? Make a map of structure post full pool.
On the north and south end I have vertical structure that'll reach to about 2-3 feet from the surface.
The question I had was about my stocking plan and if the BG population will be big enough in 12 months to sustain the LMB and HSB that I put in.
If catfish come in from above GSF potentially could also.
I stocked BG in early spring and LMB in fall, and my BG got ahead of my LMB and have never had a successful LMB spawn. That might not be a bad thing for trophy LMB but I have had to raise up additional LMB for supplemental stocking. My point is don't let the forage fish get too far ahead of your preaditors if you want a sustainable LMB population. They can get thick enough to inhibit LMB spawning.
There will inevitably be cats and GSF from the pond up north. Not sure how to keep them at bay besides having a bigger mouth in the water.
I am fine with my LMB not getting successful spawn since I am going for more of a trophy pond anyway.
Is it possible to just stock female LMB? I could always add more when needed (every other year or so)
"They" tell me it is possible to stock female only but it is beyond my level of competency.
The GSF and catfish should not be a problem as long as you get your BG and any other forage fish well established early. In our neck of the woods GSF are a problem if they establish and spawn before the "good" forage base gets stocked. The big mouth GSF tend to eat all the tiny newly stocked fish. But once your BG get established you will find few GSF that make it past your large LMB. Same goes for BH. Long as you have large LMB they will not thrive and be few.
I like your plan, not that I am an expert but from what I understand from my personal experience. By introducing your lmb and hsb one year after stocking your bg and res, I think you could stock some yoy lmb and hsb which would improve survivability of the lmb and hsb. And yoy should be available in the fall of 19. Stocking 8 to 12" lmb and hsb might reduce the time you would wait to enjoy your fishing by having larger fish in the pond earlier. If you were to go that way, I would reduce the numbers of lmb and hsb to stock.
Last edited by TGW1; 10/07/1806:44 AM.
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