Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,900
Posts557,093
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
18 members (BillyE, H20fwler, FishinRod, esshup, Augie, PRCS, LeighAnn, bstone261, LANGSTER, Sunil, dg84s, ewest, Fishingadventure, Shorthose, Freg, IND1371, Groundhog7, Brandon Larson), 739 guests, and 302 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
If you put the pump on a timer, you could be consistent with your run times and wouldn't have to rely on being there to turn it on...but as has been said in a couple of threads, a little is better than none at all.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
C
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
Thanks for the answer. I am about 5 miles from the nearest power line and haven't set up the solar system to run it yet.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Originally Posted By: cb100
What are the advantages and disadvantages of intermittent aeration. Right now I am only at the pond a few days a week. So I run the aeration several hours a day while I am there.


I'm new enough to aeration to be dangerous, but I would be concerned that periodic (or intermittent) aeration would lead to the accidental "turn-over" of the pond. e.g. If the lower water column loses it's O2, like lower water tends to do, and then you turn on a aerator and bring it up and mix it in, now you have a lowered O2 state which could lead to a fish kill.

Another newbie thought on the disadvantages would be...intermittent aeration would be like always starting the system up from near scratch. I would be afraid to show up on Saturday an just turn the system on for 4 hours which would lead me to 15-30 minutes on Saturday, 30-60 minutes on Sunday and then off for the week until my next visit. This would be less risky than several hours a day, but would it really be doing much? I would bet that 4-5 days without aeration would lead to a stale lower water column and followed by a couple days of aeration would lessen the quality of the upper water column. Seems to lack stability to me.


Fish on!,
Noel
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
C
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
That is what I am concerned with when I get back and turn it on there is no odor from the bubble plume. Other than an O2 meter is there a way to check lower water. Does anyone know of a reasonable priced meter?

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 277
C
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 277
I have to agree with Quarter Acre.

I run my aerator 8hrs every night on a timer. This is my first summer and the improvement in pond health is already easy to see.


Half acre 30 year old farm pond, Mebane NC. Aeration & feeder.
LMB, CC, SC, BG, HBC, two no account welfare carp and nine seasonal Tilapia that all the other fish are terrified of.

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
snrub Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
Originally Posted By: cb100
That is what I am concerned with when I get back and turn it on there is no odor from the bubble plume. Other than an O2 meter is there a way to check lower water. Does anyone know of a reasonable priced meter?


What a great discussion thread. Lots of good questions and ideas.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that when talking about aeration start up there are two specific topics of concern. One is the O2 levels but the other and more concerning aspect of diffuser start up, for the very first time (or after an extended period of inactivity), is bringing up toxic chemical saturated water too fast for it to off gas and get rid of its toxic properties so the toxic water does not kill fish. If we have stale, toxic water below the thermocline and bring it up so quickly it mixes and ruins our good top water we can kill fish because of the toxic water. It is in addition low in O2 but the reason we kill the fish may be because of the toxicity of the water rather than simply being low in oxygen content.

So that raises the question, how quickly does the water gain enough toxic gasses that it becomes a danger? For example, we might be able to assume that an old pond that has never had aeration would have toxic water below the thermocline and it would be dangerous to the fish to put in a diffuser and mix this lower water rapidly. But lets say a pond has regular aeration but the electricity goes off for 24 hours. Would it be dangerous to restart the aeration and run it continuously or would you need to do a slow start up again? My guess is it would not be a problem with only a 24 hour lapse (but of course it likely would depend on the pond). But what about 48 hours? Or a week? In other words what I am getting at, how long does it take for the detritus on the bottom of the pond to infuse toxicity into the low water resting below the thermocline to make it toxic enough for fish that when it is mixed with the upper good water it is still toxic enough to kill fish?

Of course that last questions answer is "it depends, depends, depends, depends". On a gazillion things. But it would still be nice to have some general rule of thumb. For example aeration pump quits and we get another within 24 hours = ok but if it goes a week need to do a slow startup. That is not a recommendation but just an example.

Wow that was a lot to type. Hope someone got something out of that ramble.

Last edited by snrub; 06/26/18 01:03 PM.

John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
I'm following you John!

Originally Posted By: cb100
That is what I am concerned with when I get back and turn it on there is no odor from the bubble plume. Other than an O2 meter is there a way to check lower water. Does anyone know of a reasonable priced meter?


I would think that you could loosely correlate water temps to O2 content. What I mean is that without aeration my pond has held about a 10 degree F difference from 18 inches below the top surface to 7 feet down. I expect aeration to change that and narrow the gap. Let's say that I get my aeration system up and running 10 hours at night and find that the delta T between 18" and 7 feet becomes more like 2 degrees instead of 10. If I would shut the aeration system off for a week and I came back to check the temps and found that the pond was showing the 10 degree difference again (or close), I would assume that the thermocline had moved up the water column and the lower water had lost significant amounts of O2. I would hesitate to just turn on the aeration system without going through the typical start-up procedures.

Seems like the rule of thumb we might be looking for? - At least for an established aeration system with no toxicity issues at the bottom. A gassy smell would nullify the rule and demand the start-up procedures regardless of a small delta T.


Fish on!,
Noel
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
C
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
An interesting observation I do a lot of snorkeling in my pond and before I started aeration not only could you feel the thermocline you could feel the difference in density of the water at the very bottom.

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
A buddy and I used to dive a quarry in East Tennessee years ago. It was probably 60 feet deep and gin clear. NOT only could you feel the difference in the water density, but you could literally see the thermocline. It was like looking thru some of that old wavy window glass.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
snrub Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
In the ocean where fresh water meets salt water there will be a "halocline". The salt water being heavier and staying on the bottom and the fresh water being lighter and floating on top. In the few inches of mixing and transition is the halocline that is wavy looking like you describe. Kind of shimmering and fuzzy to look through.

You can see this many places along the Mexican Yucatan coast line where underground rivers dump into the Caribbean either by openings on the shallow ocean floor or coming out of lagoons.

It is possible the thermocline you saw could also have had some different chemical content causing some of the wavy look, although I suspect just the density of the cold vs warm water would do it also.

It is a very cool phenomena.

Last edited by snrub; 06/26/18 04:24 PM.

John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
I'd give a lot of thought to just how much oxygen depleting stuff you have in those deep areas. What, besides your fish, could deplete the oxygen below the cool barrier...a lot of or very little organic sludge?


Dan McWhirter
DannyMac
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
With only a 1/10 acre pond, adding good bacteria along with aeration and fountain, is an effective and economic option.

I find I'd venture to guess that an important point is that at which oxygen, from circulating water, meets bottom scum, that is working anaerobic digestion without oxygen, and starts to change the chemical process.


Dan McWhirter
DannyMac
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
C
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 36
I am in the process of removing the muck from the bottom I use a 3" trash pump and a pvc pipe arrangement to suck the muck up and pump it to an above ground pool then I let it settle and drain the water back to my bait fish pond. The muck then gets dumped in to a pit to dry out. So I usually pump about 6000 gals out before I start the aeration back up.

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
J
Online Content
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 278
If a pond generally has light penetration to its total depth is it also at risk of DO depletion? Also if shallow enough as to not have a thermocline does that make a difference on the need to aerate?


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 234
Likes: 17
Even shallow water benefits from aeration. The addition of oxygen to the water serves to oxidize pond muck, bottom and circulating, with oxygen or aerobic bacteria. Oxidized muck generates CO2. Anaerobic digestion generates methane and hydrogen sulfide.


Dan McWhirter
DannyMac
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
snrub Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
I started this thread with the opinion that some aeration, even if it is less than recommended amounts, is better than no aeration. I do not know that my opinion on that has changed, but I do have an observation over the last year that has shown me that inadequate aeration does have negative side effects. Or at least that is what I think I have learned. Who knows for sure based only on anecdotal evidence.

In the last few years in the heat of summer I have had some issues with bluegreen algae otherwise known as cyanobacteria. This was with aeration using three linear air pumps and three double diffusers in a three acre pond. The pumps were barely adequate to create decent air flow to the 8-10' depths encountered.

This year I installed a rotary vane pump GAST 1023 rotary vane pump upgrade installation to drive all three of the double diffusers with one pump. The single large pump puts out much, much more air than the three independent linear air pumps and subsequently I have put it on a timer and only run it 8-10 hours per day (kind of depending on the temperature and time of year - still an ongoing search for the best combination). This year I have had almost no problem with the bluegreen algae blooms. Till the other day. I was just starting to get some floating to my north shore line from a south wind. I kicked on the air pump and let it run 24-7. The visible algae bloom went away (probably mixed in) within hours.

It appears (anecdotal evidence only) that by increasing the aeration and water turn over it changed conditions to disfavor the bluegreen algae bloom.

I would be interested in others comments or experiences on this observation. It looks like to me I need to set my timer for a little more aeration in the current summer conditions. Also noteworthy is that we have had recent rains and new water flowing into the pond through the sediment pond which has a high nutrient load. So some new nutrient laden water could have been the cause of the bloom. At any rate increased aeration seems to have changed conditions enough to discourage the bluegreen algae bloom.

PBF get together September 22, 2018 SE Kansas

Last edited by snrub; 09/15/18 09:47 AM.

John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,220
Since my aeration system is only weeks old, I haven't had much time to see just what kind of effect it has on BGA yet. I've had a phenomenal amount of fresh water coming into the pond this past week or so, all from runoff of my property as well as the neighbor's. So far, no negative influences.

I did increase the run time from 6 hours to 8 two days ago. Primarily due to all the cloud cover and lower surface temps. The only major change from adding more run time I've witnessed is the water is just slightly more cloudy. Whether from more bottom disturbance or the influx of this runoff, it's hard to say. I have noticed that with the water remaining more turbid, my FA has slowly gotten better.

It'll be interesting to see if it has any affect on BGA as time goes on.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
snrub Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
Turbid water will definitely help with the filamentos algae. Anything that keeps light from reaching the bottom where it starts. Pond dye helps similarly.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 793
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 793
snrub:

One thing that you touched on is the toxicity of the water when the aeration system isn't being run long enough.

Hydrogen Sulfide is the biggest culprit, and I will see if I can attach a link to an article that is geared towards aquaculture, but it could be applied to ponds. Here is an excerpt from that article:

The 96-hour lethal concentration 50 (LC50) values for
hydrogen sulfide to freshwater fish species range 20-50 μg/L,
and much lower concentrations stress fish and make them more
susceptible to disease. A measure of toxicity, LC50 reflects the
concentration of a compound in water that killed 50% of the test
animals in a specified period of time, e.g., 96-hour LC50.
Ideally, freshwater fish should not be exposed to more than 2
μg/L of hydrogen sulfide for long periods.

https://aquafishcrsp.oregonstate.edu › files › boyd2014hydrogensulfide_gaa

O.K. I don't know how to link to a pdf file, but if you copy the whole line above and paste it into google, the first hit that comes back is the article that I am referring to.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
This will take ya there...

https://aquafishcrsp.oregonstate.edu/search/google/https%3A//aquafishcrsp.oregonstate.edu%20%E2%80%BA%20files%20%E2%80%BA%20boyd2014hydrogensulfide_gaa

NOT!
I tried esshup..

Last edited by Snipe; 01/09/20 12:10 PM.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101

Attached Images
Hydrogen Sulfide Toxic, But Manageable_Page_1.jpg Hydrogen Sulfide Toxic, But Manageable_Page_2.jpg
Last edited by Quarter Acre; 01/09/20 04:06 PM.

Fish on!,
Noel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 793
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 793
Thanks! That's it!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Fungus infection on fish
by BillyE - 03/28/24 04:35 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
Alum vs Bentonite/Lathanum for Phosphorus Removal?
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 04:23 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 04:13 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by ewest - 03/28/24 03:37 PM
1 year after stocking question
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/28/24 02:44 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5