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#494986 - 08/17/18 11:07 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
masterbasser316 Offline


Registered: 07/08/15
Posts: 8
Loc: ks
snrub, what do you have for forage to grow the bass to that size since last year? Nice growth!

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#494993 - 08/18/18 10:31 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: masterbasser316]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
This sediment pond, since the fish kill I had in it, is just a conglomeration of RES, BG, GSF and HBG. Just kind of a mess really.

The LMB were put in as fingerlings and I only expected this small 1/10th BOW to grow the LMB to about the size you saw in the picture, then they were/are going to be removed and go to my main pond.

If I left them in where they were, I would expect them to not have nearly as good of growth going forward. I'm just using this sediment pond and the surplus of trash fish in it to grow some fingerlings large enough to survive in my main pond. My main pond has too many BG and such thick forage base is keeping my LMB from having any recruitment. Growing the fingerlings in this sediment pond was to help the bass population in my main pond.

They grew well but now it is time for them to be transferred to a bigger pond. They also helped "clean up" the excess forage in this sediment pond as I don't see nearly as many small forage fish.


Edited by snrub (08/18/18 10:32 AM)
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#495161 - 08/22/18 07:20 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2483
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, those lmb from the sediment pond look pretty healthy. And you have moved 6 of them over to the big pond, is that right? How do you plan to move the other remaining lmb to the big pond? I think you and I had the same problem when it came to lmb not spawning in the big pond. For me it took a lot of yoy lmb transferred to the big pond in order for me to get a spawn this past spring. So, from what you posted, I don't think six lmb added to the big pond will get you where you might want to be. If reducing some of the forage fish and getting a sustainable lmb population is your goal. However, those smb are a big plus, I think. From what all I have read, not sure the smb will assist in reducing your bg, res numbers. But, those smb are defiantly a plus, I think.
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
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#495165 - 08/22/18 07:59 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
Well if there were 94 left I would catch as many as possible and transfer them. Finally got the FA out of the way and I have only seen maybe one left. Of course there could be more, but I know there are not 94 left. Either cormorants, winter kill, canabilsm or something got them. So I am out of luck this year. Will grow out as many SMB as I can to add and hope for a spawn next year. This sediment pond can be hard on fish because of the high water exchange rates during large rain events.

Maybe if I am lucky some went over the overflow into main pond. I am seeing a better balance of BG sizes and catching some smaller LMB though none in the 10-12 inch range.

Just have to wait and see or buy some more LMB.

I did have a spawn in my old pond so if I have lots there that could be a source.


Edited by snrub (08/22/18 08:08 AM)
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#495167 - 08/22/18 08:26 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2483
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
That old pond you speak of sounds like a great place to get some yoy lmb for your big pond, if you decide to go that route. It also looks like you have an opportunity to have a nice smb pond. For me after three years of stocking lmb I see no opportunity to have a sustainable smb population in my pond. But I do have a nice population of hsb that I hand feed most days. Some of them might reach 4 to 5 lbs and when they feed there is a lot of serious splashing that goes on. smile Ponds can be a lot of "Oh crap" or "Oh Yea" and a lot of fun.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#495177 - 08/22/18 01:22 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
I bet you will like the HSB. When the wife and I visited TJ in Nebraska a couple years ago he had us grab one of his rods to check out his pride and joy. I hooked into a nice HSB and my wife caught a really dandy large SMB. He fed them some AM Large Mouth pellets also and both SMB and HSB just tore them up. They both hit the line like freight trains.

I really had no intention to ever have SMB. For one thing I did not even know where to get any. But when I built the RES pond the guys in Nebraska were having such good luck with the SMB/RES combination and when Lusk stopped by he recommended I stock the SMB to keep the RES recruitment in check. He told me about Hartleys in Kingman Kansas have supplied SMB for many many years but to order them early because they always sold out. I was going to order some for the next year and they had some so a short time later I had SMB. Then much to my surprise I had recruitment this year which was totally unexpected by me.

So it has been kind of a whirlwind romance with me and SMB. It is just unbelievable how they can flip a barbless hook. If a small one drops on the ground this old man can hardly chase the hyperactive flippers down on land. I'm having a ball with them so far.


Edited by snrub (08/22/18 01:23 PM)
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#495986 - 09/07/18 12:55 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
More pictures showing what good my sediment pond does in keeping out stuff from the adjacent agricultural field. I had just disc the field the night before the recent 1.5" rain. You can see the muddy water in the pre-sediment pond, then still turbid but much less in the sediment pond, then the much clearer water in the main pond.

Adding the sediment ponds has been very beneficial in keeping excess sediment and nutrients out of my main 3 acre pond.

PBF get together in SE Kansas September 22, 2018


Attachments
20180906_120044.jpg (68 downloads)
Description: Pre-sediment pond capturing water from the field in the background. Notice how muddy it is.

20180906_120113.jpg (64 downloads)
Description: Then the water flows into the sediment pond where more turbidity settles out before going to the main pond

20180906_120142.jpg (60 downloads)
Description: And finally the main pond water pictured with the sediment pond in the background. The sediment ponds have kept a lot of excess sediment and nutrients out of the main pond




Edited by snrub (09/07/18 12:58 AM)
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#497006 - 09/30/18 12:11 AM LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
Last December I put 100 LMB fingerlings in this tiny 1/10th acre sediment pond. Post showing fingerling LMB stocking of sediment pond

The idea was to raise them up to 10-12", catch them, and transfer some number needed to my main pond where I have had trouble getting LMB recruitment and over crowding of BG.

I have taken a few LMB out and transferred but most have went AWOL. Do not know what happened to them. Maybe in the winter when we are gone large water transfers did some in. Maybe high water flow some went over the overflow and ended up in the main pond. We had a flock of cormorants devastate our old pond and I also saw them visit this pond so maybe they got a bunch. Maybe some cannibalism since so many in a small BOW. I do not really know what happened to about 90 of them.

Till the other day when I "found" a few more. I thought they were all gone. Had tried several times to catch more without luck. Did not see any cruising the pretty clear fall water.

So this young kid of about 10-12 years of age was fishing my main pond while his dad (a friend and neighbor as well as a plumber) worked on my daughters new house being built right next to our forage pond. This young kid is a fishing machine. He had already caught numerous BG, a couple 2# LMB, and one of about a half dozen SMB I had transferred to the main pond within the last couple weeks and was telling me all about it. So I sent him on a mission. Told him I had put some SMB in this sediment pond to grow them out a little and wanted to transfer any of them over 6" to my main pond. Also told him there "might" be a LMB in there as I had stocked some last year. Also transfer any LMB he might catch.

I see him about an hour later and he had caught 6 LMB about a foot long with one being bigger and one SMB and transferred them to my main pond. shocked

Like I said, this young guy is a fishing machine. I guess there were still LMB in there I did not realize!

So today I go out with a couple bigger lures than I usually use and the two LMB shown below, out of my sediment pond that "did not have any left", were the result.

I am not a good angler. In fact I kind of suck. I have learned to catch medium size BG very well, but beyond that I am pretty much a novice. And I pretty well got showed up by a pipsqueak! Which I am very happy about. The kid had a great time and I got some more LMB in my main pond where they are needed. Maybe I will go out tomorrow and catch a couple more of the ones that allegedly were not there.

Kind of explains what happened to the couple dozen GSH I put in a couple weeks ago (transferred from my forage pond) and wondered what happened to them..........

I think about things like this when I hear someone on the forum that has just bought a place with a pond, fished it, and decided there are not fish in the pond because he could not catch any. There were not any LMB in this pond till we caught 8 out of it in the last couple days. wink

Not bad growth for being stocked December of last year and being crowded in such a small pond.



Attachments
20180929_073033 (600 x 600).jpg (50 downloads)
Description: LMB 1

20180929_094948 (600 x 600).jpg (50 downloads)
Description: LMB 2




Edited by snrub (09/30/18 01:27 AM)
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#497008 - 09/30/18 07:32 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2483
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Those are some nice looking yoy lmb. Maybe one female and one male but that is just an opinion and we know what that is worth lol. How large were the smb you put in that same little pond? With those lmb, they might make a meal out of some smaller sized smb.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#497016 - 09/30/18 10:17 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
ewest Online   content
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19586
Loc: Miss.
Nice fish. Did those 2 make it to the big pond?
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#497018 - 09/30/18 10:28 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
Knowing there could be LMB in there the SMB I put in were mostly were 5-6 inch. Put a couple 4" that likely got eaten but I see the other SMB take pellets so the larger ones likely made it.

My guess when seeing the pictures was the same as yours. One each male and female. (and that is exactly what it was, a guess)

Edit: Tracy I would guess those fish would be about a year old right now based on them being stocked as fingerlings last year December 6 and based on the size of the fish in the picture in the link above. Could be a little over a year depending on when the spawn was and if the fish were late spawn or runts.


Edited by snrub (09/30/18 11:56 AM)
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#497019 - 09/30/18 11:32 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: ewest]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes Eric the two in the pictures got transferred to the main 3 acre pond.

Ideally I would like for all the LMB to be completely gone from the sediment pond so none spawn in it. But of course that goal likely will go unmet.

If a pair or more were to spawn in the sediment pond I could in a couple years go from one extreme to the other in the main pond. I could go from having not enough LMB to quickly having way too many. All it would take is a strong spawn in that 1/10th acre sediment pond then a big rain event to take a lot of the fingerlings over the overflow into the main pond. That was the risk I took by putting LMB in this pond where before there were none.

So I would like to remove all of them. In a perfect world I would like one to remain to keep the trash fish in check but my world is almost never perfect so that is extremely unlikely to happen.

The ones I have transferred to the main pond are already making a positive effect on the smaller BG. When I feed it is not unusual to see a couple of them attacking the small BG in less than a foot of water right up against shore. Also a couple weeks ago I could throw a minnow trap in and get small BG and GSF from recent spawns. Last couple days I get nothing in the trap. So I think the young LMB plus some SMB recently transferred in are making an impact on the BG population.

In reality I may already be ok on my LMB numbers for next year. If I can get one LMB spawn off next year in the main pond I likely will be able to start managing bass numbers by the following year instead of trying to increase them.

I think I am on the road to turning things around.

From my own personal fishing perspective I would be fine if the LMB never got over about 3#. I'm just not into catching big fish. I do have a few friends that like big bass though so a few large ones to keep them entertained would be ok.


Edited by snrub (09/30/18 11:46 AM)
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#497020 - 09/30/18 11:48 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12506
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Snrub - Good documentation of first year growth of some LMB. Your results show what can be done in northern climate ponds with good forage amounts.
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#497032 - 09/30/18 02:33 PM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
I just went out and caught 5 more. Interestingly I cast into my pre sediment pond which is only about 25x60 feet and caught 3 of them and they were only 7 to 9 inches. The lack of food in that tiniest pond limited their growth.


Edited by snrub (09/30/18 02:34 PM)
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#497045 - 10/01/18 08:19 AM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2483
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
John, I remember when you were not into fishing much at all. It's fun to grow bigger fish to meet our goals. I am betting that when one of your lmb and or smb get to the 6 or 7 lb range it will be a blast for you to catch one, or a blast to watch a family member or friend catch one. I just caught my first 10" res out of the pond and that was a blast for me too. So I understand the pleasure one gets from catching big res and bg also. Even though in the big picture, my res and cnbg are not anywhere near the trophy range for those type of fish. But still a trophy to me. smile And Thanks for your post I enjoy the whole story and your updates. I even referenced some of your res pics the other day after I caught mine. I was looking for that yellow color that was on the belly side of my res. I did see a couple of res from your pics where there was some yellow coloring on some of your res.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#497061 - 10/01/18 01:09 PM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5250
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks for the kind words.

The first picture below is of a RES that has a lot of yellow on the belly. I would call this a pure RES but Bob Lusk said something to the effect a pure RES would not have vertical bands and I perceive some vertical bands on this fish. So I would like some input from the experts. Is the RES below a pure RES or does it have some BG influence making it a hybrid? It was caught out of my RES/SMB pond yesterday.

The other two pictures are of a couple more LMB from this sediment pond. I had a lot more bass in there than I thought. I'm curious as to how many more I have. Will keep trying to fish it to find out. Notice these two are a little smaller. I need to go back and count all I have taken out but it must be getting around the 20 or so mark. That should be getting close to enough transferred to my main pond to do what I want to do in controlling the BG. At 21 that would be adding 7 more LMB in the 7-12" range per acre (main pond they are going into is 3 acres). I do not want to go overboard in the opposite direction.


Attachments
20180930_130223 (600 x 600).jpg (41 downloads)
Description: RES (I would guess female) with a lot of yellow on the belly. This one caught from my RES/SMB pond, not this sediment pond although there should be RES in this pond

20180930_120522 (600 x 600).jpg (42 downloads)
Description: Another LMB raised from fingerling transferred to main pond

20180930_123939 (600 x 600).jpg (38 downloads)
Description: And yet another




Edited by snrub (10/01/18 01:10 PM)
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#497072 - 10/01/18 04:18 PM Re: LMB raised in my sediment pond [Re: snrub]
ewest Online   content
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19586
Loc: Miss.
I have seen pure RES with vertical banding like the one you posted. See below which was checked and put on FishBase.

Nice work!!!


Edited by ewest (10/01/18 04:20 PM)
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