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#494887 - 08/15/18 12:09 PM Putting in well to fill pond
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
I have a small pond that when full is ~8000 sq. ft. according to Google Earth and it fluctuates based on ground water levels. Spring rains and runoff are the only water source. Once the rain stops the water level drops several inches per day until the water table is reached - currently about 6' below ground level. That leaves the pond about 1/3 the surface area though the depth is still about 6'-7' at the deep end. The exposed shoreline is about 30-45 degree slope in most areas. The soil above the level of the pond stays damp and/or wet about 3 feet up from the water.

I've been thinking about drilling a well so the pond level can be kept up most of the year. Access to electric would depend on where the well is placed but it would be about 50'-200' at most. The quote I've got for digging just the well is $2900. Add about $2K-$4K for the other stuff that would be needed and depending on the pump.

Our house is on a well for residential use and it's about 125 deep as I recall. Is there any way to make use of that? As an experiment a couple of years ago I did run a garden hose to it for 24 hours and it did raise the level slightly when it was at its lowest. I'd guess that flow rate was maybe 3 GPM. We'll probably sell in 3 years or so which means I'd like to reduce the cost as much as possible. Having a full pond year round would probably help with the selling so there's that potential benefit, but it's not guaranteed.

I did read the thread from about 8 years ago on a similar topic but no real solution.

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#494889 - 08/15/18 12:22 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
canyoncreek Online   content


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1887
Loc: West Michigan
Tom, You are far better working on slowing the water loss rather than putting money into pumping more water in. My ground water pond was like yours although we lost maybe 1" a day. I had a few hundred into Soilfloc and problem is way better. There are some ways to make the soilfloc process go better and some timing and water condition decisions along the way TJ from this forum can help.

As for putting in a well I would not add a well at that cost if you are going to move. However there may be simple/lower cost ways to take your house well and improve that so that it can better service the house and the pond (for the new owners that is a plus as well)

If it is a submersed well and is on 220 you can change the impeller or the motor plus impeller and get much better flow. I can't imagine your house runs on 3gpm? so if you can get 5-10gpm then you can top off your pond with a long garden hose in about 72 hours. I do that from time to time and it is fairly simple. I have a dedicated line from the well main to the pond but I can't run my house when that is on so I sometimes just hook up a garden hose to limit the draw.

You could consider trenching a dedicated poly line from house to pond coming off your main well shaft which would get better flow than a garden hose and with a 220 well it will run full out with no resistance which is better for the well. you would have to run this option at night since house use of water is limited with the well going full bore down a big poly pipe down to the pond.

3rd option is a hand pounded stab well if you can hit surface water table say in the top 20 to 25 feet and use a jet pump to pump the pond up. this may not be huge quantity of water but again over a few days of pumping you can save costs and save electric use.

Jet pumps are $200 or less esp used ones, they run on 110 so trenching power to these would be easy and you can pound a point and 20' of 1 1/4" or even 1" pipe in yourself with little difficulty.

That would be the way I would approach it.


Edited by canyoncreek (08/15/18 12:25 PM)

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#494893 - 08/15/18 02:03 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
Pretty sure the house well pump runs on 110 but I'll double check to be sure.

One passing thought I had is to insert a tee in the line from the well to the pressure tank and put in some ball valves to divert to a pond-only connection that would be hooked up as needed. Probably also need anti-siphon valves. Not sure it that would work or even be up to code but it seems like it could be done on the cheap. Still would need a way to trigger the pump since that connection would be before the pressure switch.

Well drilling in Indiana needs to be done by a certified driller so a DIY solution is out as far as I can tell.

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#494899 - 08/15/18 06:41 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 529
Loc: Louisiana
My well is a 200ft submersed 1hp pump. It runs on 110. Coming out of my pressure tank, I have a 1 1/4" 3 way tee. One side is used for a water hose, one side feeds the house and the last is currently not used. Each split is equipped with a ball valve.

I've seriously considered using that unused extension to feed my pond during extended dry spells, so I conferred with my well driller. He says the pump is more than capable of supplying both house and pond. The secret is to maintain 40-50 pounds of pressure on the tank at all times. This will keep the pump running continuously to try to hit the 60 pound shutoff. Having the pump kicking on and off is not advised as it will wear the pump out, but having it run constant does no harm. Just a matter of regulating the flow at the ball valve.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#494904 - 08/15/18 07:34 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
canyoncreek Online   content


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1887
Loc: West Michigan
Anyone in Indiana know? You can't pound down a stab well and put a pitcher/hand pump or even a small jet pump on it for watering your lawn or watering your pond without a permit? I can't imagine there is harm in that if you don't use it for your house use?

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#494910 - 08/15/18 08:36 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
I double checked and it looks to be 220v for the well pump based on the wiring on the pressure switch.

The output from the well to the pressure tank is 1" PVC. The output from the pressure tank is 3/4" PEX so that reduces the volume somewhat. Putting in a Tee with a ball valve might make life easier. I'd just need to run a connection from the mechanical room to the outside and then figure how to get from there to the pond.

The alternative would be to use the existing 3/4" PEX plumbing to the hose bib and get a 3/4" hose to see what kind of flow I could get without having the pressure tank in the middle. If that's close to what's needed then I could do a permanent install with 1" plumbing.

Looks like the first step is to buy a 3/4" or larger hose.

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#494915 - 08/15/18 09:40 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
canyoncreek Online   content


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1887
Loc: West Michigan
So you have an above ground well pump with pressure tank. If you are maxing out what that pump can do (you should be able to find a pump curve diagram online) you could consider upsizing the pump. But you are correct that before you get that far you run a 1" line from the pump to the spigot and see what your flow is like. Even a 3/4 hose with a long run is going to give some loss of flow depending if you are going up hill or downhill and how far you go.

You can get frostfree hose bibs that have a 1" copper connection on the inside. If the current basement plumbing is exposed you could run a 1" pex line from the output of the pressure tank to the back side of the hose bib, then you would have a slight pressure reduction as you came through the spigot to the 3/4" hose but not much.

You could test flow with the hose and pump going wide open and see if there is any pressure left for running the shower and the dishwasher and the kitchen sink at the same time. If not you either upsize the pump motor or you use a ball valve to restrict flow. Since you have a pressure switch you want to keep the pressure drop as fixed as possible to avoid cycling as was mentioned before.

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#494918 - 08/15/18 10:17 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
Actually, I have an in-ground well pump.

I also realized that the PEX to the spigot steps down to 1/2 inch so that would restrict the flow as well. I do have access to the exterior wall to install either an additional 3/4 inch frost free anti-siphon hose bib or simply replace the existing 1/2 inch one. Though I think the current manifold being used for the exterior distribution is 1/2 inch so I'd have to bypass that for a 3/4 inch run.

I'll also need to order a 3/4 inch hose as I don't think I currently have one that size.

Sounds like I can probably get a test done this weekend and at least confirm the flow rate.

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#494925 - 08/16/18 11:41 AM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Bob-O Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: Butler In. Very NE corner
My code is there ain't no codes!!! I've found ya can do whatever if ya don't get caught. SSS, give lead poisoning ta protected species, ect, etc. I don't encourage breaking of any laws but sometimes do. Be wise, be careful.
_________________________
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.

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#494931 - 08/16/18 03:44 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hi guys - feel free to reach out anytime if I can help with pond sealing or some well info...
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#494936 - 08/16/18 04:56 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: teehjaeh57]
tim k Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 263
Loc: lampasas texas
Just had my well dug and it feeds my house and pond. 1 and 1/2 acres. 35 gallons per minute. Well pumps into a 1000 gallon storage tank so house pulls out of the tank. Works good. Takes lots of water this time of year to keep pond level

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#495371 - 08/26/18 01:41 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
JEB Offline


Registered: 08/13/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Wi
Tim-do you also have a water table pond??? I am contemplating on having a well drilled to keep my water table pond topped off but concerned that as fast as I pump the water will be exiting the pond.

When a pond reaches the water table level-will adding water/pressure reverse the flow of water back out of the pond?? I guess anyone that would have more info on this it will be appreciated.

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#495378 - 08/26/18 03:11 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 529
Loc: Louisiana
Sounds like the pond is water table influenced from reading the first post. That being said, if you don't do something to restrict or stop the water from leaching back into the water table, you'll be pumping water almost continuously. You'll fill it up, and it'll drop...over and over. Thats gonna make for some real expensive water.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#495379 - 08/26/18 03:15 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
Yes, mine fluctuates with the water table. We've had a fair amount of rain the last couple of weeks and the exposed edges of the pond are weeping quite a bit. We also have saturated ground in one area so the runoff is also filling the pond. All in all it's gone up 12-14 inches in the last couple of weeks which makes the fry happy as they now have some plants to hide in.

I've seen other posts about using well water to keep a pond full but it can take quite a bit of flow depending on the exact circumstances - meaning pond size and amount of water loss to be made up. I think the pone post I saw said they used 35 GPM to maintain the level.

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#495381 - 08/26/18 03:56 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
JEB Offline


Registered: 08/13/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Wi
Yeah I think that I may bite the bullet and take the chance with adding a well to supplement the h2o level. I only have a 1/2 acre pond that is 90 percent clay with a small section of sand gravel that the pond builder was unable to plug.

The pond was dug 2 months ago and rose fairly quick to water table level which is still 3-4í to get to full pool. Itís staying at a pretty constant elevation but the big unknown is what will happen when I begin to fill. Hopefully it fills faster than it retreats. But at a pumping rate of 36,000 gallons per day I would think it would be on the rise.. time will tell.

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#495766 - 09/02/18 04:53 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
Tom M Offline


Registered: 08/10/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Indiana
I did some testing today and it looks like I average right around 5 GPM from the faucet running off the pressure tank which will fluctuate from ~40 PSI to 60 PSI. The downside is that the pump will keep cycling.

With a hose connected at the inflow to the pressure tank I get ~10 GPM maintaining a constant 50 PSI. I looked for a connector to go from garden hose to the PEX connector on the distribution manifold but it appears the manifold uses a proprietary design as far as sealing the connection as the adapter I tried leaked at the top of the PEX connector.

Looks like I'm going to have to live with the fluctuating water level for the time being unless I can solve the connector issue. I could install some sort of a tee connection with a shutoff but that seems a bit Rube Goldberg since we're looking at selling in a few years.

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#495768 - 09/02/18 07:12 PM Re: Putting in well to fill pond [Re: Tom M]
DannyMac Offline


Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Bexar county Texas
If you have a pex manifold I would think you could attach a piece of pex and then a push fit (or any pex type) hose connector.
Keep in mind the well's drawdown. Your well might have been tested for how much water can be produced over twenty-four or forty-eight hours without drawing the water level down to the pump intake.
_________________________
Dan McWhirter



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