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#508805 - 07/11/19 06:11 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 756
Loc: NW Kansas
Interesting..
I can say that although my plants may be a bit slower, My SMB and YP are flat packing on the weight. I'm extremely pleased with growth rates right now. I checked 2 SMB yesterday that were 136 and 141 WR, 1 YP that was 122 WR so I can't complain..
I do have another variety of hyacinths that I'm going to try just to see how they compare but I don't have a variety to tag it with.
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#508874 - 07/14/19 02:49 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Snipe, Good to hear that your fish are going gangbusters. Those RW's are fantastic! You should add some more photos of your plant's progress when you get a chance.

Here is today's progress photo. The WH seem to have slowed down some and are looking a little ragged. Some kind of bug is eating at them, FA is growing on the roots, and none seem to get very big. I really expected to be culling them out by now. The 10x10 corrals are not quite full, but close. They have come close to doubling in 11 days.

I did find two rouge plants today as I was netting out some pond scum. They were very small, about silver dollar size. Maybe turtle action helped them escape. No sign of any rouge colonies as of yet, however.



Attachments
Hyacinths 7-14-19.jpg (439 downloads)



Edited by Quarter Acre (07/14/19 02:52 PM)
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#508886 - 07/14/19 08:40 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1210
Loc: Louisiana
I dont know if they exist where you are, but there is a weevil down here that feeds on floating plants like WH and Salvinia. They obviously arent able to keep up with either plants' explosive nature, tho.

Could be something like these critters have found a new food source in your pond.
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#508892 - 07/15/19 01:17 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 756
Loc: NW Kansas
That is just unreal... My plants have not spread to cover half of the 36sq ft floaty pen. I should have some plants from the other source tomorrow and my water temp is up to around 82 now so maybe they will take off. Biggest problem I see is FA completely engulfs my plants, I have to pull them out and remove as much FA as I can from roots-which it's impossible to get it all. I've filled my 16ft boat 3 times now with FA removing it until boat is almost under water. I've spread most of it up by my shop to dry, then haul to my mother in laws to work into garden. If I have to load boat again, I may resort to chemicals. I can't imagine what it would be like without Tilapia (150 4-5").
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#508898 - 07/15/19 08:12 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
I really admire your pond's natural environment and that dock really compliments the pond shape and design. No matter what happens, you could always go into the dock design and water hyacinth aquaculture business. Very nice!
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#508899 - 07/15/19 08:23 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 946
Loc: SC Nebraska
I've got a similar project (created a floating island with feeder on it) going with water hyacinth, but mixed in cattails as well. My cattails seem to be spreading faster.
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#508902 - 07/15/19 09:23 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I don't see any of the bugs, but many of the leaves have little holes in them. Either way, they are not doing much damage and the bugs are not near keeping up with the growth rates.

Snipe - We need a pic of you in the sinking FA barge! That sounds like alot of work and some nervous moments. After looking at the pic of your plants...I wonder if I did not receive some dwarf variety. Mine are not getting tall at all and the leaves are staying pretty small compared to yours. That or my waters don't have what the WH need to grow big, just fast. I think yours will be taking off with the warmer temps.

Thanks for the compliments Joey! If I could keep my standard of living messing with other people's ponds I'd be a happy man.

NEDOC - post some pics please. I am curious how you mixed the floating plants with the emergents (cattails) on your island.
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#508904 - 07/15/19 10:01 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1210
Loc: Louisiana
I noticed that about your WH too Noel. Not very big compared to what runs wild down here. Some of this stuff gets close to 2' high and as big around with really broad leaves.
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#509109 - 07/19/19 02:44 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 756
Loc: NW Kansas
Ok, here's my floaty and pics of start and today.. Not even close to what you have taking place.. I think it's around 30-35 days, I'll go back and look.
Edit: 31 days today.




Edited by Snipe (07/19/19 02:50 AM)
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#509364 - 07/25/19 10:28 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Quick Update: I have started culling plants this last week. I have removed four 5 gallon buckets worth since and expect to remove at least 6 every week until their growing season tapers.

It is amazing how much muddy-looking water runs out of the roots as I pull them from the pond and throw them in the bucket...much more muddy-looking than the water directly around the plants. The roots not only absorb nutrients, but they seem to attract and hold solids.

No flowers have shown up and their size is still on the small side. I am convinced that "they" sent me dwarfs. I'm not really complaining because larger plants might be harder to corral especially if they got anywhere near 2' high. I'd still like to try the large plants, maybe next year.
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#509377 - 07/25/19 11:47 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
DrLuke Offline


Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 438
Loc: Grinnell, IA
Good stuff QA! Thanks for this thread!
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#509382 - 07/25/19 01:24 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1548
Loc: Central Kansas
Have you noticed a difference in water clarity or is it too early to tell?

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#509389 - 07/25/19 02:34 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I was afraid someone would ask that...There are too many variables in play. Between the multiple algae blooms, periodic inrushes of rain water, me tromping around in it, Aeration timing changes & repairs and so on...there's no way to tell if it's doing anything other than just KNOWING it's doing something.

My water clarity has been around 12" all year long. Possible contributors are...

Lots of crawdads,
Possible carp hitchhikers,
Floaty clays being kicked up by aeration,
and heavy algae blooms.

The good news is there is not more than few hand fulls of FA in the pond. It can only grow right at the surface, typically on the upper most Hyacinth roots and any grass that falls over in the water from the bank.
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#509744 - 08/04/19 01:23 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
platon20 Offline


Registered: 07/20/19
Posts: 10
Loc: North Central Texas
I have a severe coontail and algae problem (covering 75% of the 3 acre pond). I'm treating it with herbicides and getting carp/tilapia but I also wanted to explore planting some vegetation on the shoreline to absorb the nutrients before it gets to the water.

What are some good plants to plant in the shoreline that won't invade the water?

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#509760 - 08/04/19 02:48 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Quick Update: Culling continues and I am averaging about one 5 gallon bucket a day. I actually pull two buckets out of an evening (one form each corral) every other day or so. The other day I pulled plants two days in a row because I was not going to be able to get to the pond for a few days. I have taken to culling the smaller bug eaten ones. The smaller plants seem to also be more susceptible to being overgrown with FA on their root systems whereas the roots of the larger plants hang down further than the FA grows.

Water temps in the pond have been about 80 top to bottom with the aerators running 24/7.

Still no flowers.
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#509773 - 08/04/19 08:56 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
FLX Muck Man Offline


Registered: 07/15/19
Posts: 55
Loc: FLX, New York
Itís amazing how much those things are growing! Any scares regarding release from the corrals?
Will you try and hold the over for the winter if you find some successful outcome to your experiment?
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#509779 - 08/05/19 08:18 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I have found 3 or 4 small plants that have escaped. All of them were found very close to the corrals and put back in. There has been no signs of rogue colonies however.

The WH can be wintered indoors, but most say that success is low unless you can really supply good conditions (better than my dark basement). It's not as easy as wintering bulbs and for 20$, I will just buy some to start it off again next year and avoid the cost, time, and electricity for light that's involved with setting up the indoor green house.
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#509784 - 08/05/19 09:04 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 946
Loc: SC Nebraska
Here's an image of the root system of my floating island in my grow out pond. It is simply 3' x 5' wire mesh with pool noodles zip tied around the edge. About 6 weeks ago I uprooted some cattails and laid them in there. It takes a while for them to establish but now they are going crazy.



Here is my floating island that I have built with plans of putting a Texas hunter feeder in the middle of. It's 15' x 8' and made out of treated 2x4s, 1x4s and expanding foam. Total cost to build was around $300. If this works out and provides refuge for fish the way I hope I'm planning to build about 2-4 more.





As a side note/question..... Does anyone have a guess as to whether the cattails will survive and start over again next year if I just anchor my floating island in the pond and leave it in the ice over winter?


Edited by NEDOC (08/05/19 09:18 AM)
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#509791 - 08/05/19 10:09 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: platon20]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: platon20
I have a severe coontail and algae problem (covering 75% of the 3 acre pond). I'm treating it with herbicides and getting carp/tilapia but I also wanted to explore planting some vegetation on the shoreline to absorb the nutrients before it gets to the water.

What are some good plants to plant in the shoreline that won't invade the water?


Sorry platon...I missed your post.

I'm not that good with plants, yet. All I can say is look for plants that are common in your area (at nearby ponds) and identify them. Marginals or emergent plants will, most likely, be what you are referring to when you ask "What are some good plants to plant in the shoreline that won't invade the water?" In general, these plants will stay close to the shoreline so long as the water does not stay shallow (less than 3 foot) for very far out into the pond. Plants like Arrowhead, cattail, Pickerel Weed, and Thalia Dealbata are ones that seem to like my pond at least. I pull any cattails that show up so that the others I mentioned can get more established, but cattails are likely to be one of the best plants to reduce erosion and take in nutrients, but the can be pretty invasive too.
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#509793 - 08/05/19 10:12 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
FLX Muck Man Offline


Registered: 07/15/19
Posts: 55
Loc: FLX, New York
Replacing the stock every year probably makes the most sense. I did a quick search on the googler to see if there is a specific reason why you might not be getting flowers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QKEeQQEyM

It is one data point, but the short story is, it won't bloom in high nutrient environments. It must need some stress to feel the need to pollinate and sexually reproduce, otherwise, maybe it is content in high nutrient environments to just clone and make as much vegetation as possible, going crazy and neglecting bloom until it feels the need to go dormant.

If you're using them to strip nutrients from your BOW, you will likely not ever see them bloom, or if you do, it may be time to take them out!

Your setup is still visually appealing, even without the flowers. I think the symmetry around the dock and the geometric shape of the corral makes it look ornamental and aesthetic.

@Snipe. That may correlate with the difference in growth rates you're seeing. You may get less vegetation, and therefore be more likely to bloom. I would assume that a bloom would correspond with seed production, maybe?
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#509794 - 08/05/19 10:19 AM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: NEDOC]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
As a side note/question..... Does anyone have a guess as to whether the cattails will survive and start over again next year if I just anchor my floating island in the pond and leave it in the ice over winter?


Fantastic addition to the thread NEDOC! Thanks for posting those pics.

I can't help but think that the cattails will survive IF the bulk of the root system is below the ice, but only time will tell. Certainly try it and post back to this thread. If the ice gets to the upper sections, the lower "alive" portions might rot off and sink...IDK

Does your floating mesh and noodle islands float out in open water or do they require being in the shallows? I can see them getting heavy and lop-side sinking. I may have to steal that idea next year and try some cattails too.
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#509805 - 08/05/19 01:21 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 756
Loc: NW Kansas
Got one to bloom, QA!!!

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#509806 - 08/05/19 01:26 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Very good Snipe, maybe mine are not far behind.

Beautiful flowers.
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#509809 - 08/05/19 01:49 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: Quarter Acre]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 946
Loc: SC Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
As a side note/question..... Does anyone have a guess as to whether the cattails will survive and start over again next year if I just anchor my floating island in the pond and leave it in the ice over winter?


Fantastic addition to the thread NEDOC! Thanks for posting those pics.

I can't help but think that the cattails will survive IF the bulk of the root system is below the ice, but only time will tell. Certainly try it and post back to this thread. If the ice gets to the upper sections, the lower "alive" portions might rot off and sink...IDK

Does your floating mesh and noodle islands float out in open water or do they require being in the shallows? I can see them getting heavy and lop-side sinking. I may have to steal that idea next year and try some cattails too.


They float in open water. My pool noodle island is in a 600 sq ft grow out pond, so it just goes whichever way the wind blows, never rooting down. Oddly the plant growth above water seems to not impact the balance and buoyancy of the island at all. No idea why. I'll keep updating with pictures every few weeks as my larger island is progressing quickly recently.

BTW, I was thinking the same regarding the roots staying alive if they stay below the ice.
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#509818 - 08/05/19 03:03 PM Re: Reducing Nutrient Levels in Small Pond with Plants [Re: NEDOC]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
BTW, I was thinking the same regarding the roots staying alive if they stay below the ice.


Consider sinking one of the noodle islands so that the bulk of the root system is below the freeze line for the winter. Maybe not the best idea if you only have one island, but it's got to be better than letting it reside where the ice will be.
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