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Here are the pictures of the 8 cabbages planted on June 1 and the picture of the cabbages three weeks later. My lesson's here are it's a must, to add fertilizer in raft gardening on a pond and for some reason pond muck seems to badly stunt or kill plants. The other 6 cabbage plants that are planted in the unfertilized potting soil don't seem to be doing much. If it looks worthwhile I may build a better system for next year. I waded out to inspect the cabbage for bug dammage and there wasn't any.





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If the muck is saturated with water it could have low dissolved oxygen. While plants leaves absorb C02 during photosynthesis their roots need abundant oxygen.

brian


Last edited by bcotton; 06/24/13 05:04 AM.
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Brian that makes sense to me. When I used to make my own potting soil perlite, and vermiculite. The perlite was to aerate the soil.


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Ok I would like to add some plants to my system but think it may be too late for veggies so I was trying to determine what other plants would be the best to pull nutrients out of the water.

I can add some both to the tank (may not be best idea as Tilapia will eat) and grow beds. I would like to use what’s best to help supplement my filter at this time until I can find time to make a better filter.

Please let me know any ideas.

Thanks

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I have planted cucumbers as late as september and still gotten a few... It's not too late to plant vegetables. You may not get the best harvest but the plants will grow and will eat up nutrients if that is your goal.

anything that likes full sun and can live and grow in the july/august heat should work fine.



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If anyone suffered through my video last month. Here's an update on my plant growth.

The cucumber plant grows about a foot a day. I think the watermelon plant grew that 10 ft runner across the grass overnight... at least i know it wasnt there last sunday when i was doing some work on my ferro tank.


The arugula is tightly packed and kind of yellow. It is probably being out compete for nutrients from the cucumber, luffa and watermelon vines which are dark green and growing vigorously. Like seriously... putting weeds to shame.


The yellow squash went from finger sized fruits last weekend to these monstrosities in about a week. I am hoping to get a lot more soon. The cucumber is just now starting to fruit.









Last edited by bcotton; 07/05/13 12:54 PM.
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This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

What is that netting you have stretched across there?

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Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

Just do it! Otherwise, it will never happen.

My tank at my son's house is made from one of the 400 gallon IBC tanks. He's been collecting lettuce and peppers. His tomato plants have lots of green tomatoes on them -- cherry, Early Girl, Big Boy, and one of my heirlooms -- I just don't remember which kind. The cucumber plants and squash plants all have fruits growing. And that is all in a 4'x4'x6" area that is flooded and drained with a very small pump and bell siphon. He was going to add two rows of green beans yesterday.

We have been having some mortality with fish. I'm assuming it is probably lack of D.O., since the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are immeasurable, and the pH is about 7.1. Yesterday, we added more line to the pump side, and the pumped water is now being sprayed into the beds to hopefully add a little more oxygen. We also added more pipe to the drain side, along with some holes on the side of the pipe, to hopefully add even more oxygen to the water.

Because of the problems with fish mortality, I put in some goldfish from a local pet store. They too died, but it appeared to be from ICK. The original fatheads we put in have spawned, and are doing well. I think all the bluegill are gone. A few of the tilapia are still swimming.

If this doesn't help, I will probably put an airstone in the bottom and add a medium size aeration pump.

Last edited by catmandoo; 07/08/13 03:59 PM.

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I would go ahead and add the air now and not wait. You can get one at a big box store that is better than nothing. I am using the one below and have had good luck with it last year and still working this year. It is on 24/7. I also like the fact that I can add multiple stones to the tank, plus last year I had fry like crazy and was able to add air to the other tanks as well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BJP4V0/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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The netting is just shade cloth. I have no insulation so it helps keep the water temperature down.

warm/hot water holds less oxygen than cold water so low DO is very much a possibility in the summer time.

I actually lost an adult blue gill in early summer before i put the shade cloth up. I think the direct sun is just too harsh on 100 degree days. The water probably gets hotter without the shade.


brian

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Here is my experiment so far with the raft growing cabbages in the pond.



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John,

I think the fertilized growth rules out low do. The soil just doesnt appear to have nutrients. The thing i dont get is you had pictures of flowers before the cabbage which looked like they were doing great?

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Brian the flowers of last year were planted in pre-fertilize potting soil and they did do great. I'm still not sure just how good the fertilized cabbage will do. I waded out to check it a few days ago and the head wasn't forming yet and there were a few bug spots on it. When the season is over I will take a picture of it and see if this was a good or bad idea, at least for cabbages. Your plants really look good.

John


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I quick 2 minute growth update.

Things were doormant through july and august but picked back up in september once the weather started to cool. I had very vigorous growth on everything that is still alive but it is basically one plant.

Next year, I'll train the luffa on a trellis over the grow beds to provide some summer shade to other smaller vegetable plants and keep it from out competing everything. it's a neat plant.




also by next year u hope to be completely out of the IBC fish tanks and 100% into the larger ferrocement tanks like the one you see in the background.


brian



Last edited by bcotton; 10/11/13 01:23 AM.
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I drained most of my tanks this weekend so i could catch the tilapia and bring them indoors for the winter.

I took the opportunity to document the growth of some of my HSB. They were about 4in/1oz when i bought them in may.




I will be moving the HSB to the 800 gallon ferro tank for the winter later this month (after i finish building the first grow bed for that tank.)

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Originally Posted By: catmandoo
Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

Just do it! Otherwise, it will never happen.

My tank at my son's house is made from one of the 400 gallon IBC tanks. He's been collecting lettuce and peppers. His tomato plants have lots of green tomatoes on them -- cherry, Early Girl, Big Boy, and one of my heirlooms -- I just don't remember which kind. The cucumber plants and squash plants all have fruits growing. And that is all in a 4'x4'x6" area that is flooded and drained with a very small pump and bell siphon. He was going to add two rows of green beans yesterday.

We have been having some mortality with fish. I'm assuming it is probably lack of D.O., since the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are immeasurable, and the pH is about 7.1. Yesterday, we added more line to the pump side, and the pumped water is now being sprayed into the beds to hopefully add a little more oxygen. We also added more pipe to the drain side, along with some holes on the side of the pipe, to hopefully add even more oxygen to the water.

Because of the problems with fish mortality, I put in some goldfish from a local pet store. They too died, but it appeared to be from ICK. The original fatheads we put in have spawned, and are doing well. I think all the bluegill are gone. A few of the tilapia are still swimming.

If this doesn't help, I will probably put an airstone in the bottom and add a medium size aeration pump.


Never ever use fish from a pet store for your system or anywhere else. As you found out they carry disease.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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This video shows some 1 day old tilapia fry in my 700 gallon ferrocement aquaponics tank. I dont try to breed tilapia anymore but when i see this i usually net a few out and put them in an aquarium. I will probably grow them out to fingerlings and use them as bass or crappie treats. "breeding tilapia" can be this easy.

The ferrocement system is still incomplete, I need to add more tanks and grow beds. Right now there is 1- 8'x6'x1' grow bed and a 700 gallon fish tank. In the fish tank are about ~7- adult tilpaia, ~10- 7-9" largemouth bass, ~10- .5-1.5lb channel catfish and 4or5 comet goldfish.


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What length do tilapia have to be before they spawn? And why aren't the fish gorging themselves on them.

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They spawn at 3-4 inches but these are probably getting close to 12".

I figure they arent getting annihilated because they are too small. If i had some 3" bluegill in there they would be, but all the fish in this tank are pretty big and i dont think they see a tiny fry as a food source.

I "saved" 200-300 by scooping them up with a net. The life expectancy of fry in that 700 gallon tank are not long. Maybe a few days. I figure the channel cats get them at night when they get inactive near the bottom but i dont know. I dont see anything attack them

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there were only a handful of fry left in the 700 gallon tank when i fed the fish today. i did see a couple of fry in the sump so possible they are getting sucked up by the plumbing and end up dying in the grow beds


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I had some goldfish in my tank last year for the kids and thought maybe I received all male tilapia. Then I noticed some fry one day and the Goldfish were going crazy.

Now I know why their bellies were so distended.

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What kind of containers are the white ones you are using for the grow beds?

Also where can one purchase those?

Can you recommend any other type of grow beds as well, trying to get one added ASAP?

Plus as far as grow bed media goes what types do you use and why?


Thanks



Originally Posted By: bcotton
System 2, Outdoors in north texas.

The apartment design is the simplest of designs. A pump in the fish tank pumping to the grow beds which drained back into the fish tank.


The major draw back to this design is that if your plumbing fails, your fish tank can go empty.

A minor draw back to this design is that the water fluctuates in the fish tank. Some people say that this is unhealthy or stresses the fish but I have seen no practical evidence to support that claim [as long as the fish tank never gets too low or goes empty.] I often use my sumps as a nursery tank for sick or weakend fish and for fry grow out. I have noticed no significant effects of the water level changes in growth, health or behavior.

It is not really a design flaw, but the grow trays are only 6 inches deep and i wanted deeper grow beds to support taller plants. Six inch grow trays worked find for greens and herbs but tall plants like peppers and tomatoes want to fall over because there's not enough base support.


This second design is at a rental house and I am working with a space that i cannot modify so the space affected the system design considerably.


To protect against plumbing failure, the main difference in design is the addition of the sump tank. This is a modified CHOP (constant height one pump) design or some refer to as a CHIFT/PIST (constant hieght in fish tank/pump in sump).

To move my system/fish without deaths, I bought a new 300 gallon fish tank which I filled with water at the new property. I treated the ~300 gallons tap water water with 3000mg of aesorbic acid(vitamin C) to destroy the chloramines and let it sit with an aerator overnight. I was then able to move the tilapia in 5 gallon buckets to the new tank. Then over the next couple of days I moved the rest of the system



The fish tank stays constant height and overflows into the sump. The pump is in the sump and pumps to all of the grow beds which drain back into the fish tank.





I am looking ahead to north texas winters and I realize that I will not be able to keep the tilapia through a second winter(first was in the apt). So in anticipation. A few weeks after i got moved, I took a trip to buffalo tx to get 36 channel cats and 24 bluegill fingerlings. I have plenty of filtration for this fish load right now, but as the fish grow I am going to need more filtration so i get started building some larger 4'x8'x9,5" grow beds using wood and pond liner.


An architectural abomination, i am embarassed to post this.



Each new grow bed is built for ~100$ which is probably one third of what i paid for the hydroponic grow trays I used before The wood beds covers about the same square footage but due to increase depth provide more filtration (cubic feet).

Each new grow bed is about 150gallons or .75 CY. I priced hydroton for this volume and it came out to roughly 1400$. I decided to buy 1.5 Cy of expanded shale which cost a hair over $100. No brainer, right? I've already talked about pluses and minuses of expanded shale in a previous update. I should also note that smaller diameter also means more surface area for bacteria, which is another minor positive. I chose expanded shale over pea gravel and river rock primarily because it is lighter.





I moved to this house in march, The growth was decimated by insect and caterpillars in april and into may. Then in mid-late may predator insects and birds found the smorgasbord and the plants were recovered by mid june when these pictures were taken. My romain lettuce were slighly out of season and bolted but everything was looking healthy and green. The tomato plants are wide/full plants and producing some small tomatoes. The pepper plants were still growing/establishing and I think you can see some squash plants in one of the pictures going nuts.


Brian

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1) Those are botanicare hyrdoponic grow beds. but i dont recommend them. They are expensive and shallow 4"-6". They work obviously but you are limited to short plants greens and herbs. Tall plants will have a problem staying upright when the wind blows. I try to make my grow beds 12" deep.


2) You can get premade grow beds like those at a hydroponics supply place

3) Other grow bed options inclide wood and pond liner, food grade barrels or ibcs cut in half, anything that can support the substrate, holds water and wont leech.

4) I use 1/2" expanded shale. It's a little bit lighter than river rock and porous. It is not PH nuetral. It's relatively cheap when you buy it by the CY. River rock is a good just heavier.

You may find alternatives rocks thatw ill work well. Anything that is ph neutral, and .5-1" in diameter should work well. You can test media ph by submerging it in vinegar. If it is a alkaline you will see bubbles.


I try to avoid pea sized gravel because it has a tendency to clog up with fish solids and plant roots.

The expanded clay balls you get at the hydro store are light, ph neutral and pretty perfect, but they are about 14x more expensive, If you are doing a very small system it may be worth it because you dont have to buy in bulk.

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I was trying to find something fairly cheap to try this year since it is so late and not sure when I will even get to it. Plus like you said the beds you can buy are really high so I wanted to try something like a plastic tub or something else similar to that if you thought it may work.

They tank I will probably hook it up to is about 300 gallons, i have another 110 gallon stock tank I had thought about using but it may have to wait until next year since my fish are already in the 300 tank and running at this time, plus I do not have the room or access to power for another tank at this time.

I may try to build one out of wood next year and use a liner but wanted to just get something going this year to see if I could get some plants to grow and possibly help out my fish by pulling out some nutrients from the water.

I have even thought about just trying to grow some sort of plants that may do a better job using the nutrients than veggies. Do you grow other items like that, which are easy to grow and use tons of nutrients.

Please let me know.

Thanks

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I want to correct something i said i oversimplified. You can grow more than herbs and greens in a 4-6" grow bed. Tomatoes and peppers, squash, broccoli, cucumbers, watermellons.. For some of these things you may need to train them or setup trellis but you could grow anything really. It's just might be a little more to consider. Plus, generally more biofiltration the better.


Yah, rubbermaid tubs can work. I have seen people use those cement mixing tubs. they are shallow but like you say, it's temporary. you could even use the 110 galoon stock tank as a grow bed.

Last edited by bcotton; 07/14/14 04:12 PM.
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