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#494613 - 08/07/18 03:37 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19414
Loc: Miss.
SMB on bed




Attachments
Bacc 15 (158).jpg (508 downloads)



Edited by ewest (08/07/18 03:38 PM)
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#494627 - 08/07/18 11:51 PM Re: Fish IDMore SB recruitment [Re: TGW1]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
Snrub, smb like rock piles that have the larger sized half football sized rock you speek of. we call it chunk rock and look for it along shorelines. It wont be long now, maybe 3 or 4 yrs when your smallies are good fighting sized fish. I don't care for eating them, or at least eating the size I normally catch in the 2 to 3 lb size, there is just not enough meat on them. But I sure do enjoy catching them. Wishing you the best. Oh! I would also like to have an excavator at my place. I might be like Bob L and wind up with 8 or ponds. smile


I caught about ten SMB today. Moved 4 to my forage pond and put a half dozen in my sediment pond. Biggest one was 7" and the smallest about 4". All kinds of SMB recruitment. I put about 16 ton of the larger size rock in scattered around the edges. Some of it this spring and a lot more recently. I had read that the SMB liked rock piles.

SMB are crazy fighters. I use a barbless 1/32 oz jig head and the small 4-5" fish don't load the rod to keep the line tight very well. They shake so violently they shake the hook out a lot. I have learned when I hook a small one I pull it right out and towards the bank because about half the time it will shake the hook and land on the ground. If I tarry too much they shake the hook and I loose them. I thought BG were fighters but these tiny SMB are just crazy fighters and are as aggressive as HBG to bite the hook. The 4" fish can barely get the hook of the jig head in their mouth.

Have not really tried any crank bait or worms or anything to catch the original stockers. I have so much recruitment I figure the larger SMB will eliminate a lot of them so I might as well catch a few and start them in my sediment pond.

The picture below I would guess is an original stocked fish. I stocked some 6-9" fish and also 4-6" so I suppose this could be one of the original 4" fish.


Attachments
20180807_172611.jpg (31 downloads)
Description: 7" SMB from RES pond moved to sediment pond.

20180807_142924.jpg (32 downloads)
Description: some more rock piles (2-3" rock) added just yesterday




Edited by snrub (08/08/18 12:01 AM)
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#494628 - 08/07/18 11:54 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: ewest]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Eric I may be seeing SMB on nests. I just assume they are RES but can't really get close enough to tell for sure. And looking down on top of fish doesn't help with the ID.

I did catch one SMB today that was about 6" that looked like it had swallowed a golf ball. I don't know enough about fish to know if it was a female ripe with eggs (I would think it is too small/young) or if it had just gorged itself on pellets. It was sure fat. Wish I had taken a picture of it.

Edit: added two pictures of the same nest. One with fish on it and one without. This potentially could be a SMB nest as it is kind of by itself and a little larger than most of the other RES nests. I just could not get close enough to see the fish well enough to tell for sure. If you look close you can see nest is dug in the 1" and finer limestone gravel that I had dumped in numerous places along the bank.


Attachments
20180805_100248.jpg (33 downloads)
Description: Fish off nest

20180805_100223.jpg (32 downloads)
Description: Fish on nest




Edited by snrub (08/08/18 01:08 AM)
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#494629 - 08/08/18 12:22 AM Re: Fish IDMore SB recruitment [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub
Been waiting for the pond level to decrease and my energy level to increase to do a water level improvement to this pond. With rain a few days away in the forecast and the pond level a good foot below full pool because of the exceptionally hot dry weather the time had come. After watching the pond a year and considering the watershed area that fills the pond I decided I could safely maintain a higher water level on the existing dam (less freeboard space). I have done a similar exercise to three of my other ponds.

This pond has an 8" PVF overflow pipe. First step was to take the laser level and establish full pool level, dam height and emergency overflow height. I determined I could safely add 9" to the depth of the pond by installing a 90 degree elbo on the 8" overflow pipe. The vertical part of the elbo was cut down to about an inch above the top of the 8" pipe. This will give me about 9" additional water depth. I left the emergency overflow at the same level and at the new full pool level the water will be running about 4" over full pool through the overflow pipe when the emergency overflow is reached. So during heavy rain events under soil saturated conditions, the emergency overflow will really become more like just a normal earthen overflow and flow water. So the emergency overflow will likely get used once or twice a year. More normal rains will simply pass through the overflow pipe. I did cut the dam down in the emergency overflow area to make sure the flow area width was very wide and could handle the water coming out of both field terraces that flow into this pond from adjacent crop field. Wanted to make sure the dam would not breech during an exceptional rain event.

Pictures with descriptions below.

No one would hire me as a concrete contractor. But what I did will work. I dug down about two feet to where the clay was very hard and solid to form a base to hold the concrete block and then drove two T posts down into the bank an additional couple feed and embedded them into the concrete. Added some rebar also.


And now the "rest of the story". I started out with the intention of raising the water level 9". But while marking where the new full pool water line would be I realized on the west end of the pond the ground was relatively flat and would make more 0 to 9" deep water than what I wanted.

So I thought I would just go get the scraper and dozer and make that small area two or three feet deep. So the small project of making the pond deeper turned into expanding the pond size with some earth moving. So I got started on that project and come to the realization that I would have dirt to do something with. No problem as there were a couple spots that additional dirt would make the slope easier mowing and some erosion had made the dam peak kind of rounded. Plus it would not hurt to make it a little wider and add a few more inches of freeboard just for safety in case of heavy rain. But to do what I wanted to do would take more dirt than just 2 or 3 feet deep. So the little dirt project turned into a bigger dirt project and the deepest part ended up closer to 8' deep from the new full pool level.

What was the west end of the pond will now be an under water hump coming within about 9" under water at the shallowest parts. Added some new rock piles at the edge so will now be rock piles along the new "hump".

These "projects" always take on a life of their own. But two days after starting it was all done and I think it turned out nice. Don't think I will regret any of it. Pictures below.


Attachments
20180805_113453.jpg (55 downloads)
Description: Started out taking out dirt with the 12 yard scraper

20180805_175837.jpg (46 downloads)
Description: Then the dozer

20180805_175847.jpg (41 downloads)
20180807_143013.jpg (44 downloads)
Description: About 6' deep and with another 20" of water when at full pool will be close to 8' deep

20180807_143030.jpg (36 downloads)
Description: made the slope easier to mow and added some width to the top of the dam

20180807_142933.jpg (36 downloads)
Description: This area that was the west end of the pond will now be an under water hump with about 9-12" water over the top. Added some new rock piles.

20180805_113312.jpg (39 downloads)
Description: Widened and raised the dam a few inches

20180807_094343.jpg (45 downloads)
20180805_094750.jpg (37 downloads)



Edited by snrub (08/08/18 12:47 AM)
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#494630 - 08/08/18 12:39 AM Re: Fish IDMore SB recruitment [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Caught my first RES by hook and line today out of this RES/SMB pond and lo and behold I'm pretty sure it is a hybrid. I moved it to my old pond.

I have been very careful with the RES I stocked from my forage pond to only use specimens large enough that I could positively identify them. But I also stocked 200 2" fingerlings from Dunn's Fish Farm and they were too small for me to be positive about all of them.

I don't think I have many hybrids or I would be catching lots of them as they tend to be easy to catch.

My other issue with this pond is I had a flock of cormorants that may have wiped out a bunch of fish. Plus I could have had some winter kill. So not even sure how many RES survived. But I have been seeing them on nests so I know I have some and I have added some more since the cormorants from my forage pond. But the reality is I just don't know what my RES population currently is.

I know the fish pictured below has RES in it. But I would call it a hybrid with some GSF genes in it.


Attachments
20180807_202051.jpg (59 downloads)
Description: Hybrid RES or pure RES?????


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#494638 - 08/08/18 01:11 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
Quarter Acre Online   content


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 668
Loc: West Central Missouri
Here John...I turned your fish over. Call me picky, but I just couldn't look at it upside down. I realize the photo was right side up, but the fish was just not right!

I'd say your are right about the mix. Had I not ever found PB, I would not have noticed any RES traits at all, only GSF. Heck, I'd probably called it a bluegill!



Attachments
Johns RES mix.jpg (368 downloads)

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#494640 - 08/08/18 01:44 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: Quarter Acre]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Hmmmmm. Must be certain browsers. Mine shows the fish right side up. I did turn the picture differently than the camera shot it so you must be viewing it like I saw it originally.

At any rate, thanks. Others probably see it upside down also.
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#494648 - 08/08/18 08:48 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4180
Loc: Raymond, NE
Looked fine to me, definitely a hybrid.
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#494651 - 08/08/18 09:25 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1994
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Nice work on that pond, John. During low water, will it become two separate ponds, or did you add a connecting ditch?
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#494652 - 08/08/18 09:49 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
It could as it currently is, although starting out 9" more full it will have to drop 9 more inches than what it currently has this year.

When the new part fills I may take the backhoe and connect each end as deep as I can dig then it will always stay one pool. I'm not going to do it till we get some rain because if I did it right now it would lower the pond even more by a couple inches and I have fish on nests right now that are already really shallow.

Once we get just a little runoff, enough to fill the new part, then I could connect it without dropping the old part.
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#494686 - 08/09/18 02:16 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Have been keeping an eye on the RES on nests in this pond for a few days. Up till now I would see some on the nests but they did not seem too "committed". That changed today. Every nest in a colony had a RES male on it and they were actively guarding. Once in a while would see a squable between nests and I saw one male drive away a couple 4" SMB that wandered too close to the colony. Water is low enough and nests shallow that I can see the red ear tab on some of them.


Edited by snrub (08/09/18 09:37 PM)
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#494702 - 08/09/18 08:53 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Picture of some very shallow nests with RES on them.

The spike rush in the lower left corner of the first picture would normally be under water.


Attachments
20180809_094019 (600 x 600).jpg (58 downloads)
Description: RES on nests

20180809_094052 (600 x 600).jpg (44 downloads)
Description: closer pic of same nests




Edited by snrub (08/09/18 08:54 PM)
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#494872 - 08/14/18 10:51 PM can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
I just can't get over these SMB recruitment's YOY. They are voracious.

In just slightly over 5 minutes I caught these five fish. I moved them to my forage pond. My thinking is most of these are going to become food for the 10" and larger SMB in this pond, so since there are so many of them I might as well move a few to another pond where they stand a better chance of getting bigger.

I find it interesting that at under 4" (the smallest one pictured was about 3.25") the SMB fingerlings have a distinctive black band on the tail. It is easy to ID them swimming from other shiners or FHM by the tail band. Somewhere around 5 or 6" this black tail band fades away and the tail color matches the rest of the fish.


Attachments
20180814_114944.jpg (52 downloads)
Description: SMB

20180814_115123.jpg (48 downloads)
20180814_115314.jpg (27 downloads)
20180814_115521.jpg (35 downloads)
20180814_115653.jpg (33 downloads)

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#494873 - 08/14/18 10:54 PM Re: can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
You can tell the ones that are pellet hogs. This SMB looks like it is about to pop it is so full of pellets.


Attachments
20180811_150650.jpg (66 downloads)
Description: SMB full of eating pellets

20180807_172611.jpg (53 downloads)
Description: One of the original stocked fish




Edited by snrub (08/14/18 11:01 PM)
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#494878 - 08/15/18 08:08 AM Re: can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: snrub]
NEDOC Online   content
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 749
Loc: SC Nebraska
Those SMB are incredible. Congrats on that.
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#494921 - 08/15/18 10:48 PM Re: can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: NEDOC]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4942
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks.

FINALLY caught a RES out of this RES pond. Nice 7" female that has the classic RES snout and look.

The fingerling YOY SMB just kill me. Got to thinking maybe I was catching too many. But then I set in one spot on the pond and caught about 10 in a row. Ended up getting 20 in that bucket before taking them to my sediment and forage ponds then came back and got about 15 more. About 2/3 of them 3 to 4" and the rest 5-6". I'm thinking maybe the larger ones are from the smallest of the 4" stocked late last fall but I am unsure. I am sure the small ones are YOY.

I can catch the 4" ones one right after another. I figure many of the small ones will end up the same fate as a FHM and get eaten so I see little harm in removing a bunch and growing them out in another pond. I been putting the 4" ones in my forage pond where there are few predators and the 6" ones in my sediment pond where I do have some 10-11" LMB that were stocked as fingerlings last fall also. I caught one today at 11" and have been moving them to my main pond.

Everything caught today on a 1/64 oz jig with a pinch of Gulp Alive fake earthworm or green waxie


Attachments
20180815_181018.jpg (56 downloads)
Description: One of about 18 SMB this size I caught by hook and line today.

20180815_144405.jpg (50 downloads)
Description: RES caught today from this pond left side

20180815_144431.jpg (55 downloads)
Description: RES right side - I really like the looks of this female




Edited by snrub (08/15/18 10:52 PM)
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#494946 - 08/17/18 07:31 AM Re: can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13498
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
So that's what a RES looks like. I know what they look like at stocking time but.....
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#494949 - 08/17/18 08:21 AM Re: can't get over these SMB fingerlings [Re: snrub]
NEDOC Online   content
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 749
Loc: SC Nebraska
Healthy looking RES!!
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