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#493951 - 07/19/18 09:30 AM No bass recruitment in our lake??
DavidB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 76
Loc: California
The last three years we have seen relatively few bass on beds, and are not seeing fry or baby bass by this time of year. We also are not seeing bluegill on beds, but have seen some 1" baby bluegill around shallow cover recently. The lake suffered a major dies off approx. 5 years ago and we have restocked the lake with Coppernose bluegill (2 - 3") to bass (8 - 10") at a 100:1 ratio. Our bass we are seeing and catching now are all over 12", with most abundant 15" - 18" and relative weights are all better than 90% with many in the 120% RW. Very fat and healthy looking bass. We are doing no bass culling or take at all. The lake bass population consists of largemouth bass (pure Florida strain - 5 years ago stocked and a few hundred 10" pure Northerns two years ago to increase catch rates). The forage base is bluegill. No shad in the lake. We have some tilapia (3 - 5 lb.) that are carry over from past stockings that spawn to supplement the bluegill forage base. We do have large carp population in the last 5 years (some of them survived the fish kill and multiplied due to lack of predation). The carp population appears to be shrinking, or at least we aren't seeing the numbers we did a few years ago. We are aggressively fishing for and removing the carp. The water source of the lake is 100% reclaimed water. Our water clarity varies between 3 - 15' visibility, depending on algae levels. We do have occasional events with blue green algae's (typically July - September)which are treated with algaecide / chlorine or at times Alum. With the blue greens do comes short episodes of low DO's (as low as 3 ppm)for a few days. We have aeration both mechanical as well as solar units on the lake running 24/7.

What factors would affect the number and success of largemouth bass recruitment in a lake?

Thanks!


Edited by DavidB (07/19/18 09:37 AM)

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#493980 - 07/19/18 06:01 PM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 238
Loc: Texas
Hi Dave,

Sometimes bluegill can prevent successful LMB spawns if they are sufficiently abundant. Don't know if that is the case with your BOW. Here is link to a paper that covers many factors associated with LMB recruitment.


Edited by jpsdad (07/19/18 06:08 PM)

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#493983 - 07/19/18 06:39 PM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2525
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I had no lmb reproduction for the past 3 yrs until this past spring. I had no lmb reproduction or survival of the lmb fry, which ever it was. It was most likely due to high numbers of cnbg stocking and their reproduction. And I had also added Tp to the mix, like you. I had to increase the lmb numbers by adding yoy lmb. It was necessary to increase the predators to reduce the bg numbers. I had a lmb spawn this spring and now seeing them in the 3 to 7" range, so I am guessing I got off two spawns or a rolling spawn of lmb this year. I think your situation is most likely due to your 100 to 1 stocking rates of Bg to lmb. But, the plus side is you should be seeing some nice lmb growth rates with the lmb at your place. No expert here but thought I would pass along what happened at my place.


Edited by TGW1 (07/19/18 06:42 PM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#493994 - 07/19/18 08:48 PM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
DavidB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 76
Loc: California
We don't have an over abundance of CNB. We rarely ever see them in the shallows and Never when the bass are on beds during the spawn. I am wondering if it is more of a water chemistry issue? Can common carp be the issue? All the lakes I know of here have carp in them and also very abundant and strong bass fisheries.

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#493995 - 07/19/18 08:50 PM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: TGW1]
DavidB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 76
Loc: California
Tracy how big is your pond / lake? How old is it and when did you first stock CNB and LMB?

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#494004 - 07/20/18 07:33 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1456
Loc: Central Kansas
Can you have an electroshock survey done to confirm?

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#494005 - 07/20/18 07:48 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2525
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
My pond was built almost four yrs ago and is a little over 3 acres. Cnbg stocked twice, once in Nov and again the following Feb. The first lmb were stocked as fingerlings the first of that June.

I had the pond e shocked at the first anniversary of the lmb stocking and again the following year. So I knew our cnbg numbers were high based on what I stocked and what the survey showed. Jludwig, made a good suggestion when he recommended an e shock, otherwise you are pretty much guessing and here, Overtons Fishery will run some water test at the time they are there to run the shock boat.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#494010 - 07/20/18 08:59 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: TGW1]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2445
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I had no lmb reproduction for the past 3 yrs until this past spring. I had no lmb reproduction or survival of the lmb fry, which ever it was. It was most likely due to high numbers of cnbg stocking and their reproduction. And I had also added Tp to the mix, like you. I had to increase the lmb numbers by adding yoy lmb. It was necessary to increase the predators to reduce the bg numbers. I had a lmb spawn this spring and now seeing them in the 3 to 7" range, so I am guessing I got off two spawns or a rolling spawn of lmb this year. I think your situation is most likely due to your 100 to 1 stocking rates of Bg to lmb. But, the plus side is you should be seeing some nice lmb growth rates with the lmb at your place. No expert here but thought I would pass along what happened at my place.


Tracy if you are seeing 3-7” LMB either they are growing at an exceptional rate or some of the larger ones are last years spawn. Mine are usually about 4” long at the end of the growing season their first year. The next year they are about 7” or so. But that’s my pond so your results may vary

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#494011 - 07/20/18 09:10 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: Pat Williamson]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1456
Loc: Central Kansas
Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I had no lmb reproduction for the past 3 yrs until this past spring. I had no lmb reproduction or survival of the lmb fry, which ever it was. It was most likely due to high numbers of cnbg stocking and their reproduction. And I had also added Tp to the mix, like you. I had to increase the lmb numbers by adding yoy lmb. It was necessary to increase the predators to reduce the bg numbers. I had a lmb spawn this spring and now seeing them in the 3 to 7" range, so I am guessing I got off two spawns or a rolling spawn of lmb this year. I think your situation is most likely due to your 100 to 1 stocking rates of Bg to lmb. But, the plus side is you should be seeing some nice lmb growth rates with the lmb at your place. No expert here but thought I would pass along what happened at my place.


Tracy if you are seeing 3-7” LMB either they are growing at an exceptional rate or some of the larger ones are last years spawn. Mine are usually about 4” long at the end of the growing season their first year. The next year they are about 7” or so. But that’s my pond so your results may vary


Pat, how's your CNBG or BG population?

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#494012 - 07/20/18 09:18 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: jludwig]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2445
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
This spring the LMB fry schools were large and abundant..... but that’s every year so far
( year 4). CNBG are everywhere now, but think the LMB will eat most up since the pondweed is declining already for the year.... hiding places are going away.....

I run the Texas Hunter feeder 3 times a day for 15 seconds at a time and feed is eaten before the blower stops.... piranha


Edited by Pat Williamson (07/20/18 09:20 AM)

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#494042 - 07/20/18 06:44 PM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: Pat Williamson]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2525
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Pat, I don't believe I have had any lmb fry survival until this year. Course, this is based on never seeing any in a sein or in fry schools or catching any small lmb until this spring. And none in the past two e shock surveys. This was my third year of running sein surveys in June to July. Due to our unusual spring this year, we should have had bass on the nest in late Feb (based on water temps) and then we received more cold weather march and in April. I saw bass on the nest in May. I would not have believed it if I had not seen it. I have never caught bass on nest here in E. Texas in May. And I was a bass fishing nut for 30years. lol I believe it was possible for this year to have two different spawns. And with the growth of lmb fry I have seen in the past, I have had 13.5" lmb in 6 mo and had a few in excess of 3 lb lmb shocked up in 12 months. These were the Camelot Bell's from Overtons and was recognized as Camelot's by Overtons shock survey. But this growth was in the first year of stocking lmb with real high forage rates. I have only seen one lmb this spring that I guessed at 7", it could have been 6" and have seen 3 to 4 in the 4" size from seining this week and some 2" sized I seined up 3 weeks ago. Hay, It's just my opinion smile


Edited by TGW1 (07/20/18 06:54 PM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#494068 - 07/21/18 11:15 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: TGW1]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2445
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
That’s good news Tracy, the first year they grow really fast when you first stock them . I can see 12” in 6 months but after they pig out and lower the forage down some then the growth rate drops . Now my LMB grow to about 6” in the first year.

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#494069 - 07/21/18 11:27 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19620
Loc: Miss.
LMB early growth rates vary a lot. In addition its not straight-line growth. The % growth rate is fast to start and slows through life. An early spawned LMB in a good southern environ can be 6-8 inches by fall and 12 + inches by spring.
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#494089 - 07/22/18 07:25 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2525
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
An early spawned lmb? That was kinda my point when talking about the different sized lmb fry I have been seeing this year. It is my opinion that not all lmb spawn at the same time in a lake. Some will spawn here in E. Texas during the end of Feb and others may spawn during the end of March. And with the crazy weather we have had and what we are seeing now, I just thought I was seeing different sizes due to different spawning dates or what I called rolling spawns this year. Now as far as growth rates for the first year of a lmb at my place, like Pat said, I understand it to be different from the first lmb stocking due to the amount of forage. But I do have high forage rates with high numbers of cnbg, TFS and Tp, not to mention Res but not sure how many of the res I have. So, I will just watch this year and see how they grow, its just to early to tell right now.



Eric, I respect your opinion that is for sure. So, our first e shock did not show many lmb but I was amazed when we shocked up two lmb in excess of 3 lbs in 10 months of growth from a 2" fingerling that first year. These two whoppers were the Camelot Belle lmb from Overtons and they had those distinguishable markings around the head that the CB lmb is known to have. We even discussed the markings at the time of the shocking survey, so we knew they were from the original stocking. I believe these we called Jumpers. And with these lmb spawning, would there not be jumpers in the new lmb fry? If the forage was there?


Edited by TGW1 (07/22/18 07:31 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#494096 - 07/22/18 10:57 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19620
Loc: Miss.
Lots of things effect LMB growth even in a perfect environ. Genetics is one that involves aggressiveness among others. Aggressive early born LMB are often the jumpers. But it has its downside as well because they are aggressive they take chances that often get them eaten. Also in LMB with Fla genes the males are smaller and often appear in a couple months to be a different brood due to size. Many things effect the spawn as well. I have seen LMB fry balls in the south from late Jan to Aug. - it just depends. Early born LMB are exhibited in most waters and probably in yours to a greater extent.


Edited by ewest (07/22/18 11:01 AM)
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#494123 - 07/23/18 08:41 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2525
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Thanks Eric, it was the different sized lmb fry along with seeing lmb on beds in May that influenced my thinking of a rolling spawn this year. What I understood about lmb spawning due to water temps seen most every late Feb here and then this year to see males guarding nest in May and that supported my thinking. I think lol smile

Here is a question? I got my original lmb fry the first of that June. These were two inch sized. How many days does it take for a fish supplier to have fry large enough to sell for stocking. Or lets say 2" size. 30 days? 60 days? from spawn. What would be the norm?


DavidB, have you tried running a sein to see if you have lmb fry? it was recommended a sein be run in June to July here in E Texas. Not sure about Calif.


Edited by TGW1 (07/23/18 09:01 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#494130 - 07/23/18 11:22 AM Re: No bass recruitment in our lake?? [Re: DavidB]
cb100 Offline


Registered: 12/19/14
Posts: 137
Loc: lake co calif
Dave where in California are you located?

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