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#432837 - 12/28/15 09:58 AM Making an existing pond bigger
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Hello all. I'm new. I just bought 11 acres that has a .4 of an acre pond currently on it. We plan on enlarging the pond.

I'm just curious what my options are. Since it was so warm Christmas day we went fishing after our Christmas meal and ended up catching some nice fish. So I'd prefer to NOT drain the current pond.

The area we plan on expanding to is in a lower area so we'll have to build up the a dam with a spillway.

Here is a picture of the pond and where I plan on expanding it to.

Now here's the question for the experts. Do we dig another pond with a dam between the two or what?


Attachments
pond.png (1172 downloads)

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#432839 - 12/28/15 10:35 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bob-O Offline
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 2346
Loc: Butler In. Very NE corner
Mdod, welcome to the best pond forum there is. Some actual experts will be along shortly so I won't give any advice. However,,,I usually give my opinions freely, so here is what I would do. Since your pond ain't broke don't try ta fix it. I have a 1/4 acre pond and that is plenty for me to maintain as best as possible with two of the smartest guys on the forum keepin me under their wings.
If I had such a sweet set up as you, I'd dig another smaller pond and use it to raise feed for your already well populated pond or to have fish that don't thrive well with the fish you already have. For instance, a YP, HSB, SMB pond with a few CC. Dig ya a small pond fairly deep and aeriate it and you will have a blast catchin those fish.
Do lots of research and ask tons of ?s before ya do anything.
Best of luck and please keep us all updated. Also keep a written and photo/video record of your endeavors. One of the blessing of getting old is ya start forgettin things.
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#432843 - 12/28/15 10:51 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Thanks Bob-O. Here is the kicker: my dad and I bought this property together. I plan on eventually building a house just to the west (about 100 yards or so) from the pond so all ground work will be to the east and north. I told him he could do whatever he wants with the pond as long as I can eventually build a house haha. Since he has horses on his 5 acres and a sloping lot he wasn't able to build a pond. So he is most definitely going to make the pond bigger.


Edited by Mdodson461 (12/28/15 10:52 AM)
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#432845 - 12/28/15 11:01 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bob-O Offline
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 2346
Loc: Butler In. Very NE corner
What ever ya do is between you and your pop. I usually pop off before I know exactly what's goin on.
Depending on what acreage is needed for the horses your pop could possibly build a small pond. When a pond is excavated there is a bunch of dirt to be removed. It is often used in constructing a dam. A sloping ground would be benifical to the pond if located at the lowest level.
Again, I'm not an expert.
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#432846 - 12/28/15 11:17 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Its too late for him to. He has ponds on both properties next to his so he's ok without one. The land we bought is only about 5 mins from his house.
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#432848 - 12/28/15 11:48 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bob-O Offline
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 2346
Loc: Butler In. Very NE corner
Got it.....finally.
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#433346 - 01/02/16 02:14 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
What's everyone's thoughts on this? That basically doubles the pond in size making it 8/10ths of an acre.

I also play on planting willow trees on each little peninsula. Good idea?


Attachments
2016-01-02 13.08.59.jpg (677 downloads)

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#433356 - 01/02/16 04:55 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5679
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I like the shape a lot, especially the island. I would think hard before putting the willows. I like the way they look but they are messy and will be dropping a lot of "whips" and leaves into the pond. They are prone to spread and they consume huge amounts of water.


Edited by Bill D. (01/02/16 05:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#433361 - 01/02/16 07:29 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
What trees are good for planting around a pond?
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#433365 - 01/02/16 07:46 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2063
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bald Cypress, on the side opposite the dam. No trees on the dam.
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#433379 - 01/02/16 09:58 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Yeah, I knew that. I don't want a future leak.

I see you're in NWA John. Is that what you have around yours?
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#433380 - 01/02/16 10:06 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2063
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Not yet, but plan to. I had one at the last place I lived, in a wet spot, and it did well.
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#433421 - 01/03/16 12:38 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: John Fitzgerald]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Pin Oaks like having their feet wet too, the acorns (every 2 years) provide food for Woodies, but they aren't the prettiest Oak there is.....
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#433425 - 01/03/16 01:01 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5679
Loc: Boone County Illinois
My concern with oak trees is tannin from the leaves, acorns and bark entering the water. I don't know if that is a problem with pin oaks.
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#433430 - 01/03/16 01:41 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
My concern with oak trees is tannin from the leaves, acorns and bark entering the water. I don't know if that is a problem with pin oaks.


I think it all depends on the amount of tannin and/or the amount of water in the pond. I'll get enough water in my pond from the surrounding Oak forest to drop visibility from 6'-7' to approx. 24" just due from the tannins in the water. Haven't had a fishkill (yet). The forest is made of mostly Pin Oaks, due to the seasonal flooding it gets. It's considered a "Wooded Wetland". I have White Oaks, Hickories and Sugar Maples growing too, but that is on the higher ground. The woods could be flooded for 2-5 months in the Spring if it is a wet Spring.
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#433458 - 01/03/16 07:08 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
CJD Offline


Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 59
Loc: Fl, USA
Mdod, I'm in a similar situation as you. I have a pond that is about an acre and a 1/2. I am toying with the idea of adding another 1/4acre or so to the pond. I'd like to dig out a deeper section (most of the pond is between 4 and 5ft) and then simply put an 8" extension on the drain pipe near the dam to raise the water level in the spring when the snow melt stream flows into the pond.

But before I do that, I'd like to clear another 1/4acre out and give it some depth, just a few dozer blades in width but maybe 8 to 10ft deep. I have hard clay all over the place. So I am hoping by bringing the water level up, I can flood the newly dug area and then bring the water level back down to normal levels so if the area leaks, it won't effect the rest of the pond all that much.

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#433469 - 01/03/16 08:19 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: esshup]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5679
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: esshup
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
My concern with oak trees is tannin from the leaves, acorns and bark entering the water. I don't know if that is a problem with pin oaks.


I think it all depends on the amount of tannin and/or the amount of water in the pond. I'll get enough water in my pond from the surrounding Oak forest to drop visibility from 6'-7' to approx. 24" just due from the tannins in the water. Haven't had a fishkill (yet). The forest is made of mostly Pin Oaks, due to the seasonal flooding it gets. It's considered a "Wooded Wetland". I have White Oaks, Hickories and Sugar Maples growing too, but that is on the higher ground. The woods could be flooded for 2-5 months in the Spring if it is a wet Spring.


If it was Illinois, and I wanted a tree close to the pond, I might go with something in the maple family I think. Yes it will drop leaves in the pond and potentially contribute to muck. My thinking is it provides great shade, looks good and the decaying leaves are a good forage for critters like scuds.


Edited by Bill D. (01/03/16 08:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#433477 - 01/03/16 09:37 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
I do like the idea of having a few wood ducks on the pond. What if I planted a willow in the island but different trees on the small peninsulas for shade purposes.
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#433516 - 01/04/16 06:15 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13633
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I've had to fight a lot of willows. New ones come up every year and I have no idea where they come from. I both pull and spray them. Actually, other than by root, I'm not sure how the willows even get to my ponds. I'm assuming wind blown spores.

I have seen willow roots 50 to 60 ft from the original tree. They are quite invasive. However, Lusk tells me that the weeping willow, although messy as the dickens, isn't all that invasive. But they still take more water than I'm comfortable giving them.
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#433539 - 01/04/16 09:37 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Thanks Dave. It would definitely be a weeping willow on the island, by itself. I'll be going out there every other week to weed-eat it during the warm months. If everything works out like I picture it, I'd like to have the weeping willow out there on the island big and tall weeping down with ducks out there laying underneath it. But I realize that will be a long ways down the road.

Side note on these trees. I do plan on weed-eating and mowing around the pond often so I shouldn't have too many problems with new trees popping up or anything like that.


Edited by Mdodson461 (01/04/16 09:37 AM)
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#433545 - 01/04/16 10:04 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13633
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
If you have ducks on the island wear rubber boots when weed whacking.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#433563 - 01/04/16 01:58 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Noted haha.
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#433634 - 01/04/16 08:54 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
liquidsquid Offline


Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 1938
Loc: East Bloomfield, NY USA
If you have the water to spare, I would plant the willow. It would look beautiful out there, and a great place to put some chairs in the shade.

I would love to be able to have a shore line like that to work with, but beggars cannot be choosers. I am just glad I can have a pond at all!
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#433686 - 01/05/16 09:27 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
I should have some to spare, Liquid. I mean its going to be close to an acre big so I don't think it's going to soak up too much of my water once the pond is full. I'm also going to be maintaining the land a lot so it's not like I'll have new trees popping up. I'll be about weed wacking every time I mow around the pond. I want to be able to see the snakes in the short grass before I get to them haha.
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#433687 - 01/05/16 09:47 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
So it looks like we will get started sometime around the 1st of April. The land currently has about 8 cows on it right now and I gave the guy until March 31st to get them off before I start tearing down fences and put a lock on the gate. Also it's looking like we might get to trade out some work so the cost will be down.

The plan is to do all the pond work, then come back in when the water is low and to put our artificial structures around the points and the island.

Question about those. I have a ton of 3-4' tall cedar trees that I'm going to be cutting down. Should I just use those for the structures or put the PVC and vinyl tubing like I've seen on here???

Then plant grass along the shore and down into the pond before it fills up.
Build a dock with a gazebo type thing on it. I'll include pictures.




I plan on planting some River Burchs out there along with maybe a Red Maple and a Bald Cypress or two.



Attachments
pond.png (455 downloads)



Edited by Mdodson461 (01/05/16 09:53 AM)
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