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#493513 - 07/09/18 04:47 PM Pond Renovation HELP
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
I need some expert advice. I have read some other posts, some similar, but I think each situation is unique. I have owned this pond for 6 years now. When we bought it we were told it was spring fed and neighbors stated that it had not ever been dry in the 30 years it has been here. Insert us in 2012, it went bone dry in 2013 we had a bad drought the first part of the year. Now again... bone dry. We need a fix. What is going on?

We are in Central Kansas, north of Wichita about 35 minutes. Yesterday I went exploring and dug a hole. I have about 16" of silt, hit some black dirt and then a layer of sand/clay mix and water slowly started trickling in. I went another 6 - 8" and water filled in faster. I let it sit over night, water came up to the silt level of the hole and stabilized. Water is clean and clear in the hole. Water table, spring, other, idk?

Problem #1, little to no money to throw at this. Problem #2 I don't even know where to start. Any advice would be much appreciated. Pictures are attached. Thanks.


Attachments
Pond2014.PNG (66 downloads)
Pond2017.PNG (56 downloads)
IMG_1941.JPG (53 downloads)
IMG_2064.JPG (58 downloads)


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#493516 - 07/09/18 05:07 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1270
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I'm sure no expert, but would look at the dam and the watershed first. Perhaps dam leaks, or maybe the watershed is too small to support pond during dry/hot spells.
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16. Added 100 12 inch N LMB and 1,000 shiners Oct 17, 150# TP and 70 HSB May 18




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#493518 - 07/09/18 05:14 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
There is no real, watershed to speak of. I thought the dam at first, but the water drops fast even after it is well below the dam. There is no creek feeding in. On the southern edge is another dam for the neighbors pond, again, no real watershed around him either. His overflows into mine. However, even though he has about half the depth as mine, his held water longer than mine, almost a month to 6 weeks longer than mine. He is dry now as well.


Edited by Schmidts_Pond (07/09/18 05:18 PM)

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#493523 - 07/09/18 06:29 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 613
Loc: West Central Missouri
I'm no expert by any means, but my guess is that you are lacking in watershed and my be looking at a water table pond. You should have about 10 times the pond's acreage for a watershed and your neighbor's pond is using what watershed you have. It is possible that the water table on your neighbors pond is higher than the water table under yours. Water tables are not flat, but will rise and fall with the contour of the land, sometimes against our better judgment in that they do not actually follow the visible contour of the land.

Are you behind on annual rainfall as well?

I can not suggest a fix for this, it is beyond my experience and learning unless a liner and a well is called for, but let's not jump the gun, it seems like the ponds have live with water in them for many years up until now...what has changed?

Any CAFO's get established near you that might be tapping into the water table an making it drop?

Any dirt work take place in your watershed that might have diverted water?

My 2 cents.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel


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#493526 - 07/09/18 06:43 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
Thanks for replying, I'm up for any advice I can get. We are about 10" behind on annual rainfall so far and none in sight. I was afraid of being a water table pond. To my knowledge nothing has been done near us for dirt work and i have not seen any CAFO'S put in. We do not have a well on property either, wish we did.

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#493540 - 07/10/18 09:32 AM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
I'd put in a well to feed the pond....judging by the results of your test dig a cheap shallow well could provide some decent water. Hand driven sand point maybe? No expert here but you'd only need enough flow to overcome any ground seep and evaporation. Considering you don't have a ton of surface area the evaporation should be minimal but ground seep could be a different scenario all together.

The well would get you through the tough times but shouldn't be needed when you get out of the drought
_________________________
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#493546 - 07/10/18 10:05 AM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
You think the shallow well pump would work? My concern with that would be that IF I am at the water table, a shallow well pump would draw down my pond as it pumps water back in, almost recirculating it. Or am I thinking crazy?

Surface area is about 1.5 acres when at full pool. Would a coat of bentonite on the bottom help with ground seepage, or would it just get it pushed out once the water table rises again?

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#493551 - 07/10/18 11:13 AM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
it wouldn't draw down your pond unless the shallow well was at a point higher than the lowest (deepest) part of the pond. Like I said, I'm no expert but if the pond can hold the water and all your competing with is evaporation, once the pond is full maintaining it with a low flow well wouldn't be much of an issue since it is only 1.5 surface acres.
_________________________
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#493557 - 07/10/18 12:41 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
Starting to get me excited here boys! A shallow well pump is doable on a limited budget. I have plenty blood, sweat and tears to spend! I have always written it off thinking I would draw down the pond with a shallow well.

Would like to hear some more though, will this actually work? I know a shallow well does not have a significant volume, but overtime it could slowly put water back in the pond if I run it 24/7. Then with a little rain, I should be able to just maintain the level as you stated. Calculate how much water I am losing during the day and pump that amount back in at night from the shallow well?

Do I need to worry about betonite in the pond or let it be? Any advice on installing a shallow well pump?

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#493558 - 07/10/18 01:39 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4133
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I am no expert either, but adding water from a well to a water-table pond will only work if you raise the whole water table, which could take a great deal of water. If well fed, I would think a clay liner is needed so water is not lost as fast as it is added.

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#493576 - 07/10/18 04:15 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
Hitting the sand/clay mix well before the water started coming in, makes me think there was a clay bottom to this pond at one time. It does not seem to drop steady, hot/windy days it drops more than cloudy cool days, as expected. During the cooler months, it does not seem to drop much, if any. I would guess evaporation more than anything. As it gets dryer, maybe the trees around the pond start pulling more water out during the day as well? I guess what I am getting at, I do not think it is a steady drain to the water table by any means.

As another reference, here is another picture taken in March of this year. The test hole was dug approximately where the puddle to the left is in this picture.


Attachments
PondMarch.jpg (37 downloads)



Edited by Schmidts_Pond (07/10/18 04:17 PM)

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#493584 - 07/10/18 06:00 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 243
Loc: Louisiana
If youve got access to a small dozer or tractor, now might be a good time to consider cleaning out the muck on the bottom and repacking your sand/clay. Don't think you'd need bentonite at all if your true bottom is sealed good. All that muck is gonna be holding some serious nutrients and when your water comes back you may have other issues to deal with. Just my $.02 and definitely not worth that!!
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

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#493625 - 07/11/18 09:36 AM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
I wish I did, I have been asking around and no luck yet. It would be nice to get all of that muck out of there for sure.

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#493628 - 07/11/18 10:34 AM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1432
Loc: Central Kansas
I would venture to guess that the pond doesn't have a big enough watershed to support it. Prolonged drought with no little to no runoff is an issue for most ponds.

Also if there are irrigation wells in the area, they could be dropping the water table also.

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#493663 - 07/11/18 11:10 PM Re: Pond Renovation HELP [Re: Schmidts_Pond]
Schmidts_Pond Offline


Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Kansas
Leaning towards giving a sand point well a try. Found a hand pump and shallow well pump I can use for free to give it a whirl. Thinking about going 4' off my floating dock and mounting the pump to the dock with a flexible hose connected to the sand point. Dig a test hole at that location tonight and hit water at 5'. Little bit different soil there though, it was dry all the way down, no mud to dig though and hit about 3' of sand /clay mixture. I'll drive my sand point down another 5' and see what kind of water I get there before going deeper.

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