Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Jeff Mouritz, Anthony Davis, Blaze, Clint Loveday, RCCPonds
15625 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15625 Members
36 Forums
35973 Topics
489358 Posts

Max Online: 1210 @ 08/23/18 11:01 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24029
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19497
Dave Davidson1 13538
Bill Cody 12451
Who's Online
3 registered (d-a, teehjaeh57, highflyer), 69 Guests and 432 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
#492292 - 06/20/18 02:55 PM To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not?
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 761
Loc: West Central Missouri
Would adding the Japanese Beatles to my 1/4 acre pond risk overdoing the nutrient levels?

I was looking forward to constructing the Japanese Beetle trap/fish feeder this year, but I am wondering if my pond isn't already full of forage and natural foodstuffs. My pond is loaded with FHM's and has had extreme populations of bullfrog tadpoles. The tads have mostly turned to frogs as of the last couple weeks. I stocked 500 HBG, 90 RES, and 40 HSB in April and they are being fed 1/3 pound of Optimal once in the morning and again in the evening for a total of 2/3 pound a day. The HBG are averaging 5-6" long, HSB = 6" long, RES are hard to find, but are likely 4-5" long. The fish clean up the feed in 20 to 30 minutes and most of the fish feeding are the HBG.

For those of you wondering what kind of trap/feeder I'm talking about...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18641

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=334789

I obviously cant' control the volume of beetles that would be trapped and go into the pond, but if there is any risk of putting too much nutrients into the pond I can certainly not build the feeder. I am not overwhelmed with these beetles, but they are here and will be until the grapevines, blackberries, and cannas are chewed to pieces. I have heard stories that the trap bags can fill in a day if not sooner and that seems like a lot of bugs to be dumping into the pond.

All thoughts welcome!



_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#492302 - 06/20/18 04:14 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4214
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If you through in some beetles by hand and they are quickly eaten, I suspect the trap is a good thing.

Top
#492318 - 06/20/18 05:16 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2012
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I have heard a rule of thumb that you should not feed more in one session than can be cleaned up in three minutes. If you throw out a half pound at once, then time it once active feeding begins. If not gone in three minutes, you fed too much.

This is for feed, not live beetles.


Edited by John Fitzgerald (06/20/18 05:31 PM)
_________________________

Top
#492333 - 06/20/18 08:54 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
teehjaeh57 Online   content
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
For feed the rule I use is 10 min, but John's example is even more efficient. I'd feed a few beetles first to ensure they associate them as food, and continue increasing feeding if they are consumed.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





Top
#492343 - 06/21/18 12:57 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: teehjaeh57]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5106
Loc: SE Kansas
I have found my fish often will not hit something they are not familiar with (on the surface). So if they are not used to eating the beetles, it might take some time to associate them as food.

Same thing with lots of animals. Back when we had cows on the place as I would check my corn fields would bring back some ears of corn in the back of the pickup. When done looking at them would throw them over the fence to my nephews cows. The ones that knew what whole corn on the cob was would eat them. The ones that didn't often would just sniff the ears and leave them alone. But after a few weeks of several batches of corn on the cob most if not all the cows would eventually get the idea and be pushing each other around to get to the corn.

Fish may be the same way. I have thrown grass hoppers into the pond in the summer and be amazed that the grass hopper swam back to safety. Not always but sometimes (tiny grass hoppers they tend to nail immediately though). But throw a hand full of pellets and you would think the BG were starving. BG prefer to eat what they are familiar with. So it may take some time and experimentation for them to eat the beetles.


Edited by snrub (06/21/18 12:58 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#492354 - 06/21/18 08:20 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 761
Loc: West Central Missouri
Well, it sounds like I am feeding too much as it is. My fish do not clean up the feed that the thrower puts out in ten minutes, more like 20 minutes (one time in the morning). They do a much better job in the evening when I hand feed, but I don't think I am hand tossing as much as my feeder throws on its lowest setting.

I threw about 30 or 40 of the beetles in the pond last night right before I hand fed and they liked them and polished them off in about 5 minutes. I think I will consider turning my feeder off (or modifying it to throw less food) and try the beetle feeder in conjunction with hand feeding in the evening.

NOTE: the feed does not seem to go to waste as the fish seem to get it all. The FHM's will push it around as long as there is food available, but it may be sinking and going to waste, but I doubt it.

At any rate, I will cut back the pellets and start collecting the parts for the beetle feeder.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#492360 - 06/21/18 08:41 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13538
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I would go broke feeding my pigs all they could eat in ten minutes or even 5 minutes.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

Top
#492367 - 06/21/18 10:37 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5106
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Well, it sounds like I am feeding too much as it is. My fish do not clean up the feed that the thrower puts out in ten minutes, more like 20 minutes (one time in the morning). They do a much better job in the evening when I hand feed, but I don't think I am hand tossing as much as my feeder throws on its lowest setting.

I threw about 30 or 40 of the beetles in the pond last night right before I hand fed and they liked them and polished them off in about 5 minutes. I think I will consider turning my feeder off (or modifying it to throw less food) and try the beetle feeder in conjunction with hand feeding in the evening.

NOTE: the feed does not seem to go to waste as the fish seem to get it all. The FHM's will push it around as long as there is food available, but it may be sinking and going to waste, but I doubt it.

At any rate, I will cut back the pellets and start collecting the parts for the beetle feeder.


As long as you still have FHM they will clean it up off the bottom. I used to experiment with feed and an under water camera. I would put a pile of sinking catfish food on the bottom in two or three feet of water and watch either from bank or under water camera. In just a minute or so the pile of feed would be inundated with FHM till it was gone or muddied up to where I could not see anything any more. Even out in deeper water as long as it was above the thermocline same thing.

I think the fish actually prefer to eat under the safety of water rather than come to the surface. Feeding floating feed is for our benefit, not the fish.


Edited by snrub (06/21/18 10:38 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#492373 - 06/21/18 12:11 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bocomo Offline


Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 1148
Loc: Boone County, MO (pond)
We have planned to set up a series of Japanese beetle traps this year based on information from the University of Missouri. If we actually get them running this year I'll do a thread with an update.

https://ipm.missouri.edu/MPG/2018/1/mass_trapping_japanese_beetles/
_________________________
Our old pond project (updated 4/11/17)
+Donate ('17)

Top
#492384 - 06/21/18 02:09 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2012
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Have you done a trial feeding with some Japanese beetles? Try to catch maybe 20 or 30 in a jar, then put a little water in the jar to wet their wings, then throw them out to test. Sometimes my BG don't eat them very fast, they don't seem interested.
_________________________

Top
#492386 - 06/21/18 02:18 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Bocomo]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5106
Loc: SE Kansas
The beetles are already active. Found several bunches of them last week.


Edited by snrub (06/21/18 02:18 PM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#492387 - 06/21/18 02:39 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2012
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
They have been active here for over a week. The season for them usually lasts about five weeks here. I cannot recall seeing any after July.
_________________________

Top
#493309 - 07/05/18 04:36 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 761
Loc: West Central Missouri
Well, I built the trap/feeder and the beetles came, but I am not satisfied with the results. First off, I removed my auto-feeder and replaced it with this...



The first evening of the install I heard a couple of fish hits in the jug soon after beetles were entering so I thought all was going to go as hoped. After a couple of days, the trap/feeder would have several cups of live beetles floating in the trap in the evening. The fish were not eating the amount being trapped. I wish I had a control trap to get a feel for the amount they might be eating, but I don't. The last few days I have been picking the trap up off the water and releasing the beetles to float around as I hand feed. I am not witnessing any beetle hits and once the fish are done eating pellets the beetles are left to float around and eventually get to the shore or some mat of FA, get their bearings and fly off.

I'm afraid I will be removing the trap/feeder soon since their interest has faded, but before that, I think I will try to scoop the beetles up and hand toss them in the pond like I did as a test initially and see if the sound and splash does not re-encourage them.


Attachments
Beetle Trap-Feeder RESIZE.jpg (337 downloads)

_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#493310 - 07/05/18 05:14 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Bocomo]
Bocomo Offline


Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 1148
Loc: Boone County, MO (pond)
Originally Posted By: Bocomo
We have planned to set up a series of Japanese beetle traps this year based on information from the University of Missouri. If we actually get them running this year I'll do a thread with an update.

https://ipm.missouri.edu/MPG/2018/1/mass_trapping_japanese_beetles/



I just want to say that we did make six of these and they are collecting beetles by the tens of thousands every day. It's disgusting. Hard to say if they're really protecting anything as we don't have a proper control set up but I have to believe they're making a dent. At least they were cheap to make, non-toxic, and I'm happy to just get a little revenge, if nothing else.
_________________________
Our old pond project (updated 4/11/17)
+Donate ('17)

Top
#493317 - 07/05/18 06:10 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1296
Loc: NE Missouri
Iíll be at my place tomorrow. We have living quarters in the back of a metal barn. The last two years I sweep them up in the bedrooms and bathroom by the 1000s. Plus they stink. I donít know if Iíll be able to feed the beetles to the fish, but Iíd sure like to keep them out of my house..
I need to make some of these traps.
Thx
Jeff
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#493385 - 07/07/18 07:38 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4214
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I wonder if a trap held just off the water's surface on 4 separate floats would cause beetles to hit the water but then drift off and encourage more feeding (like the electric/whip traps)? Or could mount on a boom fastened on a floating dock, or this more elaborate design on a fixed dock?



Edited by RAH (07/07/18 08:00 AM)

Top
#493386 - 07/07/18 09:09 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 152
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Well, I built the trap/feeder and the beetles came, but I am not satisfied with the results. First off, I removed my auto-feeder and replaced it with this...



The first evening of the install I heard a couple of fish hits in the jug soon after beetles were entering so I thought all was going to go as hoped. After a couple of days, the trap/feeder would have several cups of live beetles floating in the trap in the evening. The fish were not eating the amount being trapped. I wish I had a control trap to get a feel for the amount they might be eating, but I don't. The last few days I have been picking the trap up off the water and releasing the beetles to float around as I hand feed. I am not witnessing any beetle hits and once the fish are done eating pellets the beetles are left to float around and eventually get to the shore or some mat of FA, get their bearings and fly off.

I'm afraid I will be removing the trap/feeder soon since their interest has faded, but before that, I think I will try to scoop the beetles up and hand toss them in the pond like I did as a test initially and see if the sound and splash does not re-encourage them.


We are close to you, Lincoln University, where a student is attempting similar strategy. Traps over water are not as effective as identical traps in pasture or on levee. Part of water problem is distance above water. Current best model over water has visual lure over a 4" PVC pipe about 5' long that is attached to dock upright using zip ties. It has to catch a few beetles before enough present to push them down into water column where fish can get at them.

I would much rather have the beetles get over to the Bullfrogs. The Bullfrogs can really pound them down at same time the beetles are flying heavy.

Top
#493389 - 07/07/18 09:29 AM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Centrarchid]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4214
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Would you please post a picture of your design?

Top
#493469 - 07/08/18 07:14 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 761
Loc: West Central Missouri
I scooped up about 4 handfuls of beetles off the water from under the trap and slung them out if I was hand feeding (at the normal feeding time). Two fish got excited enough to hit, but no takers after that. I then fed pellets as normal and got a solid response and a typical feeding. The few hundred beetles were left alone to drift around even after the pellets were gone. I have removed the trap/feeder to avoid loading the pond with unnecessary nutrients.

I have seen the fish eat the beetles, but I am assuming that the other available foods (tons of FHM's and pellets) are enough for them and obviously preferred.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#493471 - 07/08/18 07:41 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2012
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I have thrown out Japanese beetles too, with few takers. The only way I can get the BG to eat them is to throw out a handful of beetles, then throw some pellets over the beetles. They will clean up beetles as they eat the pellets. They might spit them out under water, but i have not observed that. Maybe they have an acrid taste.

Thank you for posting this information. It could save some of us money if we were thinking of building a "feeder" trap like that.

I have caught bunches of those beetles off our crape myrtles to experiment with for feeding. The BG will almost instantly hit a grasshopper thrown in, but beetles, not so much.


Edited by John Fitzgerald (07/08/18 07:49 PM)
_________________________

Top
#493478 - 07/08/18 09:34 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4214
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Funny - when I throw beetles in, my BG clean them up. Much more aggressively compared with feed.

Top
#493482 - 07/08/18 11:15 PM Re: To use Japanese Beetles as feed OR not? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 152
Loc: .
They eat them just fine in my ponds and tanks. They develop a taste for them as typical with many novel food items.

Top

Today's Birthdays
barry
Recent Posts
Hello from Central Texas
by 45operator
Today at 12:39 AM
Some of my better pond bass.
by chunting
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
Sexing Redear Sunfish?
by snrub
Yesterday at 10:46 PM
Red/Brown Clouds In Water?
by scott69
Yesterday at 10:32 PM
Pond Boss Forum get together, Sept 22, 2018
by snrub
Yesterday at 09:30 PM
Too many LMB, no time to cull. Can a fish help?
by anthropic
Yesterday at 07:55 PM
How to fish for tilapia?
by anthropic
Yesterday at 06:32 PM
Building a garage-apartment with a pond view
by snrub
Yesterday at 02:58 PM
1 1/2-2 acre pond, questions on draining
by Brent Ohlson
Yesterday at 11:36 AM
My pond full of outcast
by bigpullerman
Yesterday at 10:38 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Vegetation ID
Our new pond
CNBG
My Best Longear so far
Help ID this fish
Crayfish monster.

© 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide