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#491842 - 06/14/18 02:32 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: BrianL]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: BrianL


I have been struggling with the feeding mysteries.

If I feed more, am I growing bigger CNBG, or just more CNBG???


Brian, its probably not one or the other but both.

Originally Posted By: BrianL

Am I putting too much effort into trying to recruit anything resembling a Shaquille O'Neal or even a Dennis Rodman out of my 1A pond size??? What are the odds???


Feed is but one part of the equation and it is easy to be seduced by the illusion that feed may make up for shortcomings elsewhere. A trophy CNBG pond will by necessity have many, many starving LMB. Unless recruitment is limited by some other means, if your pond doesn't meet this criteria it probably will not produce 2lb BG no matter how much feed you give them. Only maybe 200 BG/Acre/Year can achieve 8" + status if your heart is set on 2lb+ BG. These fish should achieve this length by the end of their second year. Considering every year millions of fry hatch per acre, a major thinning of 0 year BG is an absolute must. The next major thinning are the 1 year olds greater than 6". To have 2lb bluegill requires intense mortality of 0 and 1 year olds. If its not happening, there will never be enough food to go round to make it 2lbs.

I think that feed can help grow 2lb+ BG but it simply cannot on its own. If the predator population structure and fisherman harvest doesn't ensure low numbers of 8"+ 2nd year fish, the feed requirements to grow 2lb+ BG would be unhealthy and unsustainable for your pond.

With regard to feeding, unless big LMB are your goal, I would never feed pellets small enough for a 0 year fish to consume. This is not by experience and it isn't advice. It's just what I would not do if I were paying the bill at my trophy BG pond. O year BG are a trophy BG BOW's worst enemy. You need only a minute portion of them to survive to the gape limit. Every mouth to feed beyond the necessary works against the goal of Monster BG.

A forage pond is recommended for LMB goals. For trophy BG, one may need a "predator pond". Perhaps a pond with LMB and shiners to help maintain the small bass population of the trophy BG pond. If recruitment is limited as suggested and one doesn't feed the 0 year fish directly, it may be possible to grow a few 2 lb BG in a 1 acre pond. The key would be limiting recruitment.

(Edit) You know what? 2lb fish must be extremely difficult to achieve and just may be pipe dream. 200 8+ BG/acre/year might be too much recruitment to prevent overcrowding of big BG. Below is tabulated a 5 year grow out from the 2nd birthday. The assumptions are 20% annual mortality with 2nd year BG numbering 60 per acre at the beginning of the 2nd year. 100 % mortality at the end of 6 years is assumed. .4 lbs gain/fish/year is assumed.

YEAR_LENGTH__NUMBER/ACRE__WEIGHT/FISH_GROSS WEIGHT_Mortality%
2_____7.9________60___________0.4________24.00_______20.00
3_____9.7________48___________0.8________38.40_______20.00
4____10.3________38___________1.2________46.08_______20.00
5____11.2________31___________1.6________49.15_______20.00
6____12.0________25___________2.0________49.15_______100.00

______________________________________GR WGT TOTAL
_________________________________________206.78

This distribution of sizes would be a significant portion of the typical fertile pond's BG carrying capacity. The O year offspring of these fish would need to support the predators. This may be a very rosy outlook shocked Perhaps a more realistic picture would be greater yearly mortality or fewer 2nd year fish. I just don't know. It must be exceptionally difficult to restrict reproduction to these levels. Perhaps the only easy way to restrict reproduction to this level is to annually stock 60 7-8" males/acre. In that case the carrying capacity need only be 210 lbs/acre. So even a poor pond with a little feed might be able to do it under a male only scenario provided they live 6 years and grow an average of .4 lbs a year.


Edited by jpsdad (06/14/18 09:30 PM)

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#491988 - 06/16/18 04:14 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: BrianL]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5249
Loc: SE Kansas
Brian I have a theory. It is based on absolutely nothing but the turning gears in my head so don't put any faith in it but here it is anyway.

I have always fed around the entire circumference of my pond (except on extra windy days when I do not feed on the side the wind will blow the feed to the bank). I throw it out hand full at a time while driving around the 3 acre pond in my UTV. I feed only once a day. I do not think that is a good way to feed if the goal is to raise some trophy or large BG. (But I do it any way - what is that definition of insanity again......).

My theory is that by dispersing the feed in a wide geographical area with all feed in a single feeding a greater number of fish get fed a small amount. So from an efficiency standpoint of raising the overall poundage of fish in the pond (carrying capacity) I think my method converts the feed pounds to fish pounds well. The problem is I have lots of small and mid size fish with few large BG.

Contrast this to a program where I would feed with 1, 2 or 3 feeders in specific locations around the pond feeding multiple times a day (but with total poundage of fish feed being identical). With the feed being fed in specific locations and fed multiple times a day, the more aggressive "pigs" could more likely dominate the feeding area and get a disproportionate amount of the feed compared to the smaller or more timid fish.

So to my way of thinking to raise big fish it would be an advantage to feed in such a way that a relatively small number of the aggressive fast growing fish get more access to the feed multiple times a day.

I have told myself more than once I just need to stop and feed in three specific locations rather than dispersing the feed so widely and I would grow some bigger BG. But I have formed this habit and feeding the fish the way I am used to is just too enjoyable for me to quit.

Many pet owners think they train their pets. I think sometimes the opposite happens.



Edited by snrub (06/16/18 04:19 PM)
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#491990 - 06/16/18 04:20 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: snrub]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1452
Loc: East Texas, USA
Good thoughts, John. If catching is the goal, feeding from just a few places has the great advantage of concentrating the fish. The best four spots on my BOW are located around the four feeders. wink
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#492099 - 06/18/18 12:11 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: snrub]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Paris, TX
Originally Posted By: snrub
Brian I have a theory. It is based on absolutely nothing but the turning gears in my head so don't put any faith in it but here it is anyway.

I have always fed around the entire circumference of my pond (except on extra windy days when I do not feed on the side the wind will blow the feed to the bank). I throw it out hand full at a time while driving around the 3 acre pond in my UTV. I feed only once a day. I do not think that is a good way to feed if the goal is to raise some trophy or large BG. (But I do it any way - what is that definition of insanity again......).

My theory is that by dispersing the feed in a wide geographical area with all feed in a single feeding a greater number of fish get fed a small amount. So from an efficiency standpoint of raising the overall poundage of fish in the pond (carrying capacity) I think my method converts the feed pounds to fish pounds well. The problem is I have lots of small and mid size fish with few large BG.

Contrast this to a program where I would feed with 1, 2 or 3 feeders in specific locations around the pond feeding multiple times a day (but with total poundage of fish feed being identical). With the feed being fed in specific locations and fed multiple times a day, the more aggressive "pigs" could more likely dominate the feeding area and get a disproportionate amount of the feed compared to the smaller or more timid fish.

So to my way of thinking to raise big fish it would be an advantage to feed in such a way that a relatively small number of the aggressive fast growing fish get more access to the feed multiple times a day.

I have told myself more than once I just need to stop and feed in three specific locations rather than dispersing the feed so widely and I would grow some bigger BG. But I have formed this habit and feeding the fish the way I am used to is just too enjoyable for me to quit.

Many pet owners think they train their pets. I think sometimes the opposite happens.



I do feed from one spot and have a feeder. I got a good start with my CNBG, so I can see how feed really helps that initial jumpstart when stocking, but now I wonder how it is affecting things now. What you are saying makes good sense about feeder hogs, but when throwing one piece at a time into the group, it isn't normally the bigger CNBG that gets the feed. Normally the 5-7" is fastest and gets the food.

They do line up and stare at me between feeder spins going off, just begging for a little extra feed. They eat well.
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#492114 - 06/18/18 03:43 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: BrianL]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2407
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
I feed in one spot on the pier, 5 ac pond and catch BG at the other end of pond and it throws up pellets..... Im thinking that the fish that feed around pier stay there..... what yall think?

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#492130 - 06/18/18 07:11 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: RC51]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1061
Loc: Deep East Texas
Pat I know hundreds come running out from under my pontoon boat dock each time the feeder goes off so I believe they live there but...I also know I have several lmb that live under that dock also. Right before dark I see lots of cnbg feeding activity all over the pond. Thinking they may cruise around for a snack before bedtime. Don't think they feed much at night if any.Are your shad still schooling around on the surface?
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Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.

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#492136 - 06/18/18 10:09 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: RC51]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bluegill in my experience are inactive at night. I have netted them out of a lake at night (for catfish bait) using a light, and they just sit still and get netted.

I don't think they will feed at night.

BG feed heavily at dusk and dawn in summer though.

Herons are not active in low light, so dusk is a good time to feed, if you can keep resetting your timer as the time of dusk gets earlier as summer goes on after June 21.
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#492140 - 06/18/18 11:43 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: Flame]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1452
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: Flame
Pat I know hundreds come running out from under my pontoon boat dock each time the feeder goes off so I believe they live there but...I also know I have several lmb that live under that dock also. Right before dark I see lots of cnbg feeding activity all over the pond. Thinking they may cruise around for a snack before bedtime. Don't think they feed much at night if any.Are your shad still schooling around on the surface?


James, I think an additional advantage of the dock in summer is that it offers cooler water underneath. In False River they found that many docks had 20F lower water temps than the surrounding lake.


Edited by anthropic (06/18/18 11:48 PM)
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#492168 - 06/19/18 10:58 AM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: Flame]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2407
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Originally Posted By: Flame
Pat I know hundreds come running out from under my pontoon boat dock each time the feeder goes off so I believe they live there but...I also know I have several lmb that live under that dock also. Right before dark I see lots of cnbg feeding activity all over the pond. Thinking they may cruise around for a snack before bedtime. Don't think they feed much at night if any.Are your shad still schooling around on the surface?


James I have not seen the shad (or whatever) for a while now

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#492171 - 06/19/18 11:04 AM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: Pat Williamson]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19585
Loc: Miss.
Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
I feed in one spot on the pier, 5 ac pond and catch BG at the other end of pond and it throws up pellets..... Im thinking that the fish that feed around pier stay there..... what yall think?


BG will travel a good ways to come to the feeder. Easily can cover a 5 acre lake to come eat. LMB have been shown to move miles over a day.

BG do not feed much in very low/no light conditions when LMB are in the mix. LMB have better low light vision and lateral line perception than do BG so the BG are in danger when moving at night.


Edited by ewest (06/19/18 11:05 AM)
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#492176 - 06/19/18 11:12 AM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: RC51]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I can see my BG making waves as they come from all over the pond when I walk up to the pier to feed. It was the same with the CC last year.
_________________________

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#492628 - 06/24/18 11:28 PM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: RC51]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
The quarry in Alabama that produced the world record is called Ketona Lake. There is pretty cool story at this site :

http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/stories/post/the-fascinating-story-of-two-world-record-bluegills

Somehow deep inside my memory from viewing this a couple of years ago I must have remembered the cool waters. But only recently considered how this might affect spawns. This quarry filled very fast after a dynamite blast connected it with a spring.

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#492631 - 06/25/18 05:27 AM Re: Blue Gill and their lifespan [Re: RC51]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13590
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Neat story
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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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