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#489900 - 05/10/18 10:41 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob,
That's good news that it's dropping slower.

When my second pond was being built mid December of 2016, the builder did not have access to a roller. I had him use his large (10 ton) backhoe with a full bucket of clay to run over things and pack after it was mostly done, especially in the deeper basin.

It filled slowly at first, then we got good rains spring of 2017 and it went over the spillway twice, but leaked down a few inches fairly fast. It continued to slowly leak through last fall and winter drought, and had dropped 22-1/2 inches by late February.

Then substantial rains came late February this year, put it over the spillway. After it quit running over after a few days, I looked at the places where it had been seeping, and very little water was there.
It stayed up within six inches of full for a month with no rain, then went over again in late March rains, and dropped only about 4 inches in April despite way below normal rain.

After the early May rain, it is full again, and only dropped an inch in a week of above normal temps and wind.

If a clay dam is not fully compacted, sometimes it will settle over time and begin to hold. The last time I looked at the former seeps, only saw a little dampness.
The mud washed into a clay pond with the first few fills will sometimes clog seeps, and that along with settling of the dam makes it better.

So, my second pond is holding better and better.

It may have helped some last summer and fall when the farmer who gets my hay drove his heavy tractor and round baler around the dam to get to the lower edge of the field. He made some wide shallow ruts on the back part of the top of the dam.

Leaks where actual water flow is observed probably won't ever fix themselves, but wide seeps can sometimes get better with time.

Maybe this can give you some hope, Bob.
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#489910 - 05/10/18 01:35 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John!How much was you loosing a day when it first started coming up?
I have yet to see where any water is going.Everything is dry behind the dam.I've been keeping an eye on the ditches out at the road and down the hill on the other side of the road.I'm friends with the guy that lives on the other side of the road and he is keeping an eye out in his yard for me as well.It seems to be seeping in on the sides,near the bottom. I've noticed that the area that was under water and has dried out,has settled a lot.
I've been thinking about getting a pair of waders,and start walking around in the middle to stir up the silt some,and hope it draws into the leaks.
What I really need is rain!
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#489911 - 05/10/18 02:07 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob, it didn't seem to leak at all until it got up out of the excavated part, then it leaked through the inadequately compacted clay dam.
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#489913 - 05/10/18 02:44 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?
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#489920 - 05/10/18 06:19 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?


About a half inch a day. The excavated part is 5 feet deep, and the dam raises the level three more feet until it spills over the upper side onto the undisturbed grass. There's only three feet of head at the base of the dam when full.
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#489922 - 05/10/18 09:25 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5580
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?


About a half inch a day. The excavated part is 5 feet deep, and the dam raises the level three more feet until it spills over the upper side onto the undisturbed grass. There's only three feet of head at the base of the dam when full.


John,

Have you ever measured the evaporation rate at your place? I would think part of that 1/2 inch water loss is evaporation but don't know how much. Maybe a tote with water by the pond and compare the two level changes? I would start with the tote full so you can try to simulate wind affect. Just a thought.


Edited by Bill D. (05/10/18 09:27 PM)
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#489925 - 05/10/18 10:10 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bill,
My forage/sediment pond does not leak at all, and is in pure clay. I compare the drop in the other ponds to it to see how much is leakage and how much is evaporation during periods of no rainfall.
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#489950 - 05/11/18 01:23 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John.I'm sure I'm starting to loose some to evaporation,it's been windy and hot.Already hitting 90 around here.It's starting to look like we are going to skip spring around here and go straight into summer and another drought!
If my pond had more water,things would really be taking off.I see lots of water bugs,little frogs and tadpoles. It was bothering me that their was no fish in it after all this time, so I stopped at the bait shop and bought 5 dozen FHM (they gave me closer to 10 dozen) and put them in just for the heck of it.If they make it great,if not,no big deal.It makes me feel better knowing there is something like a fish swimming in there.lol!


Edited by Bobbss (05/11/18 03:36 PM)
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#489955 - 05/11/18 02:36 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob, the FHM are tough, and can withstand poor water conditions. Plus, they will keep it free of mosquito larvae.
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#489961 - 05/11/18 03:32 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
The mosquitos was another reason I thought it might be worth doing.I put them in my old pond last year,but it dropped so low over the winter that they didn't make it.I've been thinking about putting more in there but I'm still thinking about trying to pump the water out of it and into the new one.
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#490455 - 05/22/18 01:43 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
I got a little rain over the weekend,from Friday morning-Sunday night,4 rain events added up to about 1.55".Sunday nights .65" helped me the most,the ground was still moist from Friday and Saturdays rain and it came down pretty hard and fast.I gained about 7",which is better than nothing but Mother Nature has not been very generous to me with the rain.Everyone around me has been getting way more rain.Everytime I would look at the radar the rain was just to the south of me or just to the north of me or both,and there would be a hole in the rain just around me.lol!It's been this way for a while,everyone I've talked to has been getting way more than me.I have yet to get a single day big rain,where you get 3"+, with most of it being over a few hours.
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#490478 - 05/22/18 08:41 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1253
Loc: NE Missouri
Bobbss,
Weíve got a bunch here near St Louis. Some with good runoff. Less than half that up at my pond, with no runoff.
Is your pond near a large lake? My pond sits about a mile and a half straight east of Mark Twain Lake. (17,000+ acre corps lake). Iím starting to think that the lake effects my weather. Iíll see big storms barreling in on my pond, but as the clouds go over the lake it seems to split north south, or just peter out.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#490493 - 05/22/18 11:44 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: SetterGuy]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4834
Loc: SE Kansas
We ended up with about 2" total here over the weekend and that was just enough to fill all the ponds and my main pond just trickled a little over the overflow pipe. I could use a little more to get some flow through in the main pond to flush some nutrients out, but at least everything is full again.

North of me a little ways must have got a lot more rain because Cow Creek that cuts across the very corner of my place was at bank full. I would guess ten miles north of me they got twice the rain I got.
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#490502 - 05/23/18 06:51 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6935
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Bobbs, if your pond loses all it's water, you should rent a 36,000 pound Vibratory sheepsfoot for a day and just use all 8 hours compacting the bowl.....at the proper frequency vibration, it will compact up to 3 feet deep.....by far your lowest priced "guess" on how you can accomplish sealing the pond.
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#490607 - 05/23/18 11:43 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Jeff,no big lakes near me.I'm not getting much of the rain that's been in the St. Louis area.Last Monday I got .20", and I talked to a guy 5 miles from me that got .50", Thursday I got nothing, when a little south of me got 2"+, Friday I got .60" at the pond and at my work it was around 1.5".Monday, weather man Dave Murry said some of the area got up to 7" over the weekend, I got 1.55".

Rex,I haven't ruled that out, but it's not as easy as that.There is aroun 4' of water in it, and probably another 12"+ of mud under that.I would also have to bring something it to move the large stumps and rocks.
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#491132 - 06/02/18 12:14 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Well still no real rain for me.I added up all of April's and May's rain and it was only 5.05",and that was spread over 11 rain falls.

I probably still have just under 4' of water.I'm sure some of it is because the water level is lower,but it has been dropping slower.Probably not much more than evaporation,it's been in the 80s and 90s here for a while and has only been dropping a 1/4"-1/3" a day for a little while now.

I'm not sure if it is because it's in the direct sun and the water is getting pretty warm, but a lot of the tadpoles are dying.Anyone ever have this?I also found 3 dead FHM, but I also seen that the FHM have spawned and I have some little tiny ones.
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#491146 - 06/02/18 08:33 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1253
Loc: NE Missouri
I get an occasional dead tadpole, but not many. My pond has millions of them. From bullfrogs to toads. Iíve had about the same amount of rain, with similar water loss. Maybe your leak is slowing down? Hope so..
A few days ago, I had a forecast of 100% rain for today, with some storms being severe. They just changed it to 50% with occasional showeres. In other words Iíll get another .1Ē.
mad
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#491148 - 06/02/18 09:59 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Jeff,I have about as many dead tadpoles as I do live ones.
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#491440 - 06/07/18 12:15 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Jeff,I just read another post of your's and sounds like you didn't get any good rain last weekend either.I had 2 storm fronts come in on Saturday with lots of thunder but little rain.I got about .15" total.Things are getting really dry again already.
I had to put a new measuring stake it yesterday,the water level has been dropping slow enough and been around the same level long enough that the old stake had so much moss growing on it that I couldn't read it anymore.
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#491442 - 06/07/18 12:38 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1253
Loc: NE Missouri
Bob, it doesnít look all that promising either. We did end up getting .9Ē which helped a lot. My pond has about stayed even since the big 2Ē rain back on March 26th. We keep getting enough .5Ē rainfalls to help it hold its own.
The weather app shows several chances over the next few weeks. We at least need an inch or two, or the crops are really going to suffer. I was there yesterday and the corn is looking pretty wilted.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#491947 - 06/15/18 09:58 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Well June is already half over and I still haven't even got a whole inch of rain so far this month.I did get .40" last Saturday that gave me about 1.75" in the pond and then I got another .40" last night that came down a little faster and gave me about 2" in the pond.Not much but better than nothing.lol!It would be nice to at least get a few more feet in it again to see how well it would hold it.

I'm at least having a little fun watching the FHM numbers grow, and watching how fast they grow.I put about 10 dozen in just for something to do, just over a month ago and every where you look there is little ones.Some of them look like their already about a 1/4-1/3 the size of the ones I put in.Every other day or so I see more that look like they was just hatched.It is fun to watch.Maybe one of these days I will get to play with some real fish.lol!
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#491964 - 06/16/18 11:05 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1960
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I have only received 0.8" here so far this month. Way below average for June.
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#492001 - 06/16/18 11:30 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
John, I've got about .95" so far this month.Whats even worse is I've only got about 6" over the last 2 1/2 months, and that was spread over around 15 rains.If Spring was this bad,I hate to see what July and August will be like.
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#492062 - 06/18/18 07:45 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1253
Loc: NE Missouri
Bobbss, donít know what your forecast is, but up by my place Iíve got 60, 90, 100, 90, 20, 40, 60, 30.. Percentages for rain over the next 8 days starting Tuesday. Could be a bit of a wet spell coming!? Our beans and corn are going to really suffer if we donít get a fair amount of moisture soon. Corn is already looking pretty stressed.
Hope you get a few feet of water in your pond!
Jeff
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#492141 - 06/19/18 12:01 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Online   content


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 299
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Jeff,their showing chances of rain every day for the next week, and I'm HOPING!!!!But I've seen so many chances of rain over the last few months, but it always misses me some how.I keep hoping, but, when they say we have a chance of rain, I always figure it's for everyone but me.lol!
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Bob


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