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#490718 - 05/26/18 06:35 AM Pond Weed Control and Dogs
Hambone33 Offline


Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 25
Loc: Southern Illinois
I have a nice pond on my property that has a lot of coontail and FA. I own two Labrador Retrievers that I train and run in hunt tests and field trials. They are in the water every day and drink it by the gallon. Obviously I can't use a toxic chemical in the pond. Are there any treatments for pond weeds that are safe for my dogs?

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#490720 - 05/26/18 07:35 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4212
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Are sterile grass carp an option in your area, or tilapia? Note that tilapia must be fished out at the end of the season to remove the nutrients they have assimilated, and then restocked in Spring. They are supposed to be high quality eating. Note that there are lots of safe herbicides and algicides as well. If you go that route, just review the labels and restrictions online.


Edited by RAH (05/26/18 07:37 AM)

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#490800 - 05/28/18 09:26 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
Hambone33 Offline


Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 25
Loc: Southern Illinois
I did some research on the carp and found a nearby fish farm that is certified to sell them. They do muddy up the water though and I just don't like carp in general but I might go that route. A lot cheaper than any of the chemicals I have been looking at and probably safer. Tilapia are highly controlled in IL. Our rivers are infested with those Asian jumping carp so I guess they don't want to get tilapia in them too.

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#490806 - 05/28/18 10:20 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4212
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
"Unlike the common carp (Cyprinus carpio), which is also native to Asia, grass carp do not muddy the water of ponds by feeding in the sediment."

http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/aquaculture/pdf/ANR-0452.pdf

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#490848 - 05/29/18 01:00 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
Kelly Duffie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 1477
Loc: Cypress, TX (Helena A-E LLC))
While grasscarp (white amur) are a great biological control for several species of submerged aquatic vegetation, coontail is way down on their list of desirable table-fare. Consequently, they rarely do a great job of controlling coontail unless they're stocked at a fairly high density. Also, despite the quote that RAH posted, I've encountered many ponds where grass carp contributed to a turbidity issue; presumably when they overgraze the available plant life, and then either they (grass carp) or some other fish species (catfish?) seem to keep the bottom sediments churned up - creating a muddy-pond environment.
Regarding the dogs' consumption of treated water: I know of no aquatic herbicides that (once applied) pose an adverse threat to your dogs - or livestock/wildlife. Diquat is the only aquatic product that lists a livestock-consumption restriction, which only lasts 1 to 3 days post-treatment (depending on the use-rate). Endothal or fluridone probably offer the best treatment options for coontail, and neither one has a livestock watering restriction.
For what it's worth, the term "toxic chemical" is far more applicable to certain ornamental plants that dogs may encounter than it is to the limited number of EPA-registered aquatic herbicides.

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#490849 - 05/29/18 01:47 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Kelly is 100% correct, when GC have overgrazed their preferred forage base they will seek forage anywhere they can find it - often rooting for nymphs [Dragonfly, Mayfly, etc.] in pond bottoms and that action can cause a turbidity issue. GC in my pond prefer roots to the stems and leaves of the macrophyte currently growing in my main pond and as a result the clarity has dropped from 50"+ to around 18" due to ensuing turbidity from roots being ripped out of the clay. Happens every Spring/early Summer - I've shut down aeration to see if I can improve clarity over the short term.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#490879 - 05/29/18 02:18 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4212
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
From what I have read (I have no experience), the trick for using GC for weed control is starting with few fish and being patient as it can take several years to obtain control. The goal is less than 100% control if you want a pond without problems. That way, fish have plant material to eat longterm. If after 3 years, too many plants are left, more GC can be added. It is certainly easier and quicker to use herbicides, and it is plenty safe if you follow the label. I have curly-leaf pondweed in one of my fish ponds but it has not been a problem yet. If it does get out of hand, I may add a couple GC. I am hoping my emergent plants and ornamental water lilies keep the nutrients at a level that the pondweed stays in check. It does provide winter cover for fry.

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#490880 - 05/29/18 02:39 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: teehjaeh57]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1352
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Kelly is 100% correct, when GC have overgrazed their preferred forage base they will seek forage anywhere they can find it - often rooting for nymphs [Dragonfly, Mayfly, etc.] in pond bottoms and that action can cause a turbidity issue. GC in my pond prefer roots to the stems and leaves of the macrophyte currently growing in my main pond and as a result the clarity has dropped from 50"+ to around 18" due to ensuing turbidity from roots being ripped out of the clay. Happens every Spring/early Summer - I've shut down aeration to see if I can improve clarity over the short term.


My experience is that TP are similar: If their preferred forage isn't present, they'll eat whatever is handy. Including fathead minnows that are supposed to feed the little bass when they are stocked! frown


Edited by anthropic (05/29/18 02:58 PM)
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16. Added 100 12 inch N LMB and 1,000 shiners Oct 17, 150# TP and 70 HSB May 18




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#490894 - 05/29/18 06:51 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I have turned down working for a couple HOAs and both stocked GC following hatchery guidelines in initial stocking - which was a bad idea. GC should be stocked reactively...never proactively, IMO. As a result both HOAs are proudly managing 50 and 125 acres of turbid nightmares visibility under 6"- neither will take my advice, which is plainly evident - nuke and reset. Be careful with GC - RAH is correct, add them selectively and be wary of advice dispensed by hatcheries [with the notable exceptions of Lusk or Overton], most have a single goal in mind and are rarely motivated by anything else: Sell fish.

Per my previous post, even with an abundance of macrophytes available as forage, GC can still cause turbidity issues, and become pellet hogs, too.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#493515 - 07/09/18 05:05 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: teehjaeh57]
Hambone33 Offline


Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 25
Loc: Southern Illinois
Thanks for the posts folks. Checked and could not get GC this time of year. Looking at Hydrothol as a chemical control since I have coontail and FA.

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#493521 - 07/09/18 05:36 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
FireIsHot Offline
Moderator


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3837
Loc: Emory TX
If you go with Hydrothol, be sure and apply it at the recommended dosage. More's not better.

From the Hydrothol label: "Fish may be killed by dosages in excess of 0.3 parts per million (ppm)." It happened to me one time, not a lot of fish, but I did lose some smaller fish that were residing in coontail.

EDIT: I have used Hydrothol on freshly emergent coontail that did not grow all the way to the surface, and had no issues.

Good advice already given about GC. I'd rather have 10 too few, than 1 too many. I've had them for 5-6 years now, and I still haven't hit my permit amount.


Edited by FireIsHot (07/09/18 05:50 PM)
Edit Reason: afterthought
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#493532 - 07/10/18 02:25 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: FireIsHot]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1352
Loc: Louisiana, USA
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16. Added 100 12 inch N LMB and 1,000 shiners Oct 17, 150# TP and 70 HSB May 18




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#493615 - 07/11/18 06:35 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2427
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Back in the early 90's Lake Conroe Texas was going to be the " NEW " Lake Fork. Texas parks and Wildlife following what they had learned from Lake Fork had a plan. They lake was producing a lot of Trophy LMB. But, the lake was close to Houston where many of the surrounding land owners were from. There was a lot of money there. Complaints were coming from many about how the vegetation was too much and the jet ski boaters and non fishing recreation crowd was raising cane. The TP&W stocked Grass Carp and had not learned the lesson that to many was not good when it came to fishing. So, they overstocked Grass Carp. The great fishery collapsed. It became hard for the fisherman to locate and catch any lmb. It remained that way for the next 20 to 25 yrs and is just now starting to come back because the carp finally started to die from old age. Today, they are finally adding some of their fish to the share-a-lunker program. And the TP&W will admit their mistake and they learned from that mistake.


Edited by TGW1 (07/11/18 06:38 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#493630 - 07/11/18 10:39 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: TGW1]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1352
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Something similar happened to Caney Lake here in Louisiana, Tracy. Had a bunch of state record LMB caught, but weeds were a nuisance. So they stocked GC and the fishery never recovered.
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16. Added 100 12 inch N LMB and 1,000 shiners Oct 17, 150# TP and 70 HSB May 18




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#493632 - 07/11/18 11:07 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1442
Loc: Central Kansas
Wouldn't the weed habitat benefit the growth of LMB? I realize there is a fine balance between just enough and too much.

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#493654 - 07/11/18 05:40 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 1021
Loc: Deep East Texas
Back in the day when I tournament fished we used to joke about Lake Conroe. It was a well known fact that there were only 6 large mouth bass in Lake Conroe and IF you caught one you were either a fishing god...or you were cheating!! Ha Glad to hear it is making a comeback.
_________________________
Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.

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#493670 - 07/12/18 08:28 AM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
bassmaster61 Offline


Registered: 06/18/15
Posts: 138
Loc: St. Louis, MO/West Central Ill...
We have been successfully using Grass Carp at our place in Macoupin County, Illinois for the past 20 years. They definitely DO NOT muddy up the water. Common carp do but not triploid GC. Highly recommended. We use 4-6 per surface acre. BM61.


Edited by bassmaster61 (07/12/18 08:31 AM)
_________________________

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#493867 - 07/17/18 06:16 PM Re: Pond Weed Control and Dogs [Re: Hambone33]
FireIsHot Offline
Moderator


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3837
Loc: Emory TX
BM61, GC can cause muddy water if the stocking rate is too heavy for the plants available to them. You stock yours at the same rate per acre that we do, and we don't have any turbidity either. I'm good with that.

What's neat is to watch GC eat freshly emergent coontail. At least here, they swim up to the plant, do a violent twist, and rip the coontail out of the pond bottom. It looks like a mini mushroom cloud as they swim away.
_________________________
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