Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Bass overcrowding not a problem?

I HAVE READ WHERE BASS OVERCROWDING A POND IS NOT THAT BIG A PROBLEM, BUT BREAM OVERCROWDING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE AND WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE COULD EDUCATE ME ON THE SUBJECT. NOW FROM WHAT I'VE READ, BASED ON STOCKING BREAM AND BASS ONLY, IF YOU CATCH LARGE BREAM AND LARGE BASS YOU ARE IN GOOD SHAPE, IF YOU HAVE LARGE BREAM AND SMALL BASS YOU HAVE TOO MANY BASS. IF YOU HAVE SMALL BREAM AND LARGE BASS YOU HAVE TOO MANY BREAM, IF YOU HAVE SMALL BREAM AND SMALL BASS YOU HAVE A BIG TIME PROBLEM AS BOTH ARE OVERCROWDED. NOW I KNOW OVER CROWDED BREAM IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ATTENTION BUT HAVE READ WHERE TOO MANY BASS IN A POND IS NOT THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE. CAN SOMEONE EDUCATE ME ON THE SUBJECT AND IF I AM WRONG ON ANYTHING ABOVE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I,M WRONG, AS I HAVE A 3 YR. OLD 1 1/2 ACRE POND I'VE STOCKED AND CURRENTLY FISH FROM AND I'M GOING IT ALONE EXCEPT FOR INFO I CAN GET FROM WEBSITES AND NEWS ARTICLES. MOST EVERYONE I KNOW LIVES TO HUNT DEER WHICH I DO ALSO BUT AM BEGINNING TO REACH THE POINT WHERE I BELIEVE FISHING IS MORE RELAXING AND REWARDING BECAUSE TROPHY DEER HUNTING CAN BECOME MORE LIKE A JOB AND I AM ALMOST RELIEVED WHEN DEER SEASON CLOSES.

rrd- The relationship of bass to bream or predator to prey is ultimately based on the OWNER'S GOALS for the pond. Different goals for the fishery will require different percentages of numbers and sizes for prey to predator ratio. This gets a little complicated or detailed based on what species are present and what goal is desired. The more species present the more complicated it becomes to maintain proper balance of all species due to the interactions / behavior of each species with one another. Actually the pond's whole food-web ultimately gets involved in achieving each goal.

Put most simply, there are three main goals for a fishery.
1. General Fishing - where the system is in a "normal balance" and a variety of all sizes are present with a predominance of fish being in the smaller to mid-range of sizes; a few large ones will be present.

2. Trophy Panfish. . This is where a large portion of the panfish are large and of harvestable size with numerous truly "dandy" or trophy class specimens being present.

3. Trophy Predator . This management technique results from "adjusting" all the fish populations (prey and predator) so a larger percentage of the predators, usually bass, are larger than average and bigger than those in the general fishing category. This involves maintaing the proper sizes and numbers of larger prey so the higher numbers of large predators are healthy, plump and thriving not just surviving as big thin bodied fish!.

Each goal requires different proportions of fish sizes and fairly frequent adjustments are needed to the fish community to achieve or maintain those desired goals. This is what fishery management is all about.

Back to what I think was your question.

What is wrong with bream being overabundant? Answer. There are several reasons.

1. The main problem with this is overabundant bream will over eat the food source and become stunted. Stunted and slow growing bream are always very hungry. During bass spawning abundant small bream surround a bass nest like a gang of thieves. One brave bream enters the nest territory and the male chases him out of the nest area. While the male bass is briefly gone from the nest, the other bream thieves are eating bass eggs and or fry. It does not take much of this type of activity and a bass spawn for the year is decimated and often it is totally eliminated in smaller ponds.

2. Small bream eat the same things that very young bass eat; zooplankton and small invertebrates. Overabundant bream over eat the food source and bass fry either starve or grow very slowly until they are big enough to eat the smallest bream. Depending on circumstances, but often many of the small bass starve to death.

3. In over abundant bream and always abundant agressive green sunfish conditions the bream not only rob bass nests but they have no alliances and they rob other bream/sunfish nests of eggs and fry. This leads to very poor spawns of bream, and bream fry are scarse. Thus, young bass grow slow due to low numbers of fish prey.
The longer a bass stays small the greater its chances of becoming a food item for a bass that is twice its size.

Some others will maybe provide some other reasons.

Bill, I'm interested in your comment on a trophy bream fishery.
The 8 acre lake I have has a well balanced population of bass, catfish, and bream including bluegill, redear, green sunnies and warmouth. The bluegill and readear are up to 12" and over a pound.
Not bad but I'd like some 2 to 3 lb.'ers in there.
What would a person do different in raising a trophy bream fishery as opposed to a trophy bass fishery. I have been told it is difficult to have both. Thanks in advance.

You heard correctly. Managing for trophy bass are opposite methods than those for trophy panfish. In larger waters you can have have both types present if harvest and management is correct. But with special management the numbers of each "targeted type" present can be increased. As Bob Lusk always says "a fish stops growing when it hits the frying pan".

In trophy bass fisheries you want lots of intermediate sized bgill (4"-7")and similar forage sized items and keep the smaller bass (8"-12") numbers LOW.

For trophy panfish you want lots of smaller sized bass and very few large bass who are primarily eating large bgill (5"-7") . High numbers of smaller bass (8"-14") are keeping the numbers of small bgill low so remaining bgill have more food to grow big. Big bass are eating bgill in low side of keepable size range.

Keeping track of harvest rates (#/yr) and periodic monitoring the numbers present are important in maintaing the quality fishery over time so it does not get "out of balance" based on the desired goals.