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#49020 - 07/28/04 09:57 PM Wich is the most beneficial
big_pond Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1027
Loc: North East Georgia
If you had to choose one and only ONE program for a brand new pond, which would it be what order of importance would you rank each of these and why:

1) Stocking fathead minows initally
2) Stocking threadfin shad
3) Fertilization program

I have a limmitted budget now, I spent so much money on building the lake and makeing sure it was structerly sound, that I have run out of money on the stocking program..

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#49021 - 07/29/04 06:03 AM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
george Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 1074
Loc: Plano, texas
Big Pond,
I would stock fathead minnows, coppernose bluegill and redear sunfish in limited numbers and just let them grow.
I recall yur pond is rather large but there will be a population explosion in a new lake.

This approach can be achieved with less than the cost of couple of tanks of gas in my area.

If you are close enough to N.E. texas I will supply gratis from our forage pond.

If you are close to N.ER. Te

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#49022 - 07/29/04 06:34 AM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
It all starts with water quality. Give it a little time and check alkilinity. If it is OK and a sechi test is good, I wouldn't fertilize. Fertilizer has a place just like any other tool or medication. However, an over dependence on something you really don't need doesn't make sense and, like medication, can be harmful. I have posted before that I have stopped fertilizing due to DO crashes. However, it can do a beautiful job of jump starting a new pond. An alkilinity test might say that you need to lime before fertilizer will work. It takes time before alkilinity leaks from the soil so don't get in a hurry and assume you need to lime. Check with locals about their alkilinity levels or ask if you can test it if they don't bother. Back to fertilization: Bob Lusk once posted that you shouldn't fertilize if you don't need to. Bill Cody once posted that if you start fertilizing, don't stop, I respect both of these guys opinion.

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#49023 - 07/29/04 09:49 AM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
big_pond Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1027
Loc: North East Georgia
One thing, I can't promise is that when I start fertalizing, I will continue. I live an hour away from the place and sometimes getting down ther can be tough.
I might need to stock threadfin because I will need them for HSB..

If I stocked Hybrid striped bass and did not do feeding what would they eat, if I did not have the threadfin??

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#49024 - 07/29/04 11:36 AM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
lee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 199
Loc: louisiana
i vote flathead minnows,but please try to remember that all the hard work and money will be a waste if you dont get the next step off to at least a fair start.you did not give us stocking bream as a choice,i will asume you have enough $$$ to get this part done?

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#49025 - 07/29/04 12:23 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
big_pond,

I agree completely with George. As to the threadfin shad, it is a risky venture depending on your location. We are in East Texas a couple of hours from Houston and have tried multiple times with very limited success to establish a threadfin shad self-regenerating population in my 3 acre pond. This year to provide additional forage (besides coppernose and fatheads)to the HSB and LMB, I stocked Tilapia. The results are very encouraging so far.

Follow George's advise and also start a feeding program. The fatheads are greatly underestimated in my opinion. I stocked them once three years ago and still see good numbers of them even with a lot of predators.

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#49026 - 07/29/04 02:15 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
big_pond Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1027
Loc: North East Georgia
Wow this is new to me...Fathead minows can reproduce and maintain a good population?

What is the deal with the Threadfin I wonder? they don't hold up to the cold? I am in north GA the Lake is 9 acres, 30 feet deep. Will this location be to cold for threadfins?

Yes I am going to stock 400 coppernose, 100 redear and 100 redbrest. Next spring 10 to 15 HSB and 10 to 15 Northern LMB 10 to 15 FL LMB and 10 to 12 Blues. All these numbers are per acre of course.

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#49027 - 07/29/04 03:30 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
Yes, I've seen several folks say that their fatheads all disappear after the initial stocking and they aren't worth stocking, but my experience is different. They reproduce like crazy and the fish love them and keep their numbers low. I always see them in the pond, not big schools, but several scatterd around that I know are reproducing many little bites of food for the other fish.

Threadfins are kind of a mystery to me. I don't believe mine have been killed in the winters because the last two winters have been very mild in East Texas. I've seen other posts in which some folks have had good luck with Threadfins and others have not. It is not for lack of trying in my case as I've stocked 10,000 in each of the last two previous springs only to watch them disappear. This year, for the first time, I did have some small numbers of survivors. I don't have an explaination.

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#49028 - 07/29/04 04:15 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
big_pond,

a p.s. for you...I also stocked redears with coppernose Bg in my initial stocking and by the following spring, the redears simply disappeared without a trace. I've got thousands of coppernose but not a single redear that I can find. I've seen similar posts on here about that also. Can't explain it, maybe you will have better luck.

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#49029 - 07/29/04 05:02 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
I think fatheads are OK. I buy a pound or 2 per year and add them. They don't last but while they do are a good food source for smaller fish. I don't think they would be of much benefit for Stripers. The energy expended probably wouldn't be equal to the protien received on larger fish. I don't think you can beat plain old bluegill. They act like they are on a combination of Viagra and Spanish Fly. My redears also didn't make it. Nor did my coppernose.

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#49030 - 07/30/04 07:05 PM Re: Wich is the most beneficial
Rangersedge Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Illinois
I'd probably vote for the fatheads, but I'd also caution that you will probably have help in stocking that lake since you live far away. Probably uneducated and highly unhelpful help.

Unless you plan to drain it before stocking, I'd be tempted to buy or borrow at least some fatheads, bluegill, and redear fish followed up appropriately with some predator fish later to stock so it doesn't get all out of balance from the start.
_________________________

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