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#387230 - 09/12/14 11:18 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Yes on the FHM if the water hasn't dropped a lot (40%-50%). I woldn't do the hay thing, that'll just be more organics in there. The jury is still out if hay works on all ponds. I've seen where it does work, and where it didn't do a thing. With all the leaves that will be falling shortly, the pond will have plenty of organic material in it within the next month.

Getting the grass seed down and established will do more for the muddy water than bales of hay.

If you can get to the water, and get a mason jar full without scraping up mud from the bottom, do it. Set it on the counter for a few days without disturbing it. If the clay settles out, then you're fine. If it stays in suspension, then the pond will need to be treated with alum/hydrated lime to balance out the electrical charge in the water and precipitate out the clay. But, wait until you have grass growing around the pond to prevent more clay from washing into the pond first.

When you have the time, read these:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124005#Post124005

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283542#Post283542
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#387248 - 09/12/14 01:41 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6941
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Setter, get some water in a clear glass jar and let it sit undisturbed for 3-5 days to see if it clears. If it does, great, if not, you may want to act now rather than later. Feel free to call me any time if you like.
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#387276 - 09/12/14 05:06 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Rainman]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
+1 on calling Rex. He's relatively local to you and knows about treating ponds with alum.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#387311 - 09/13/14 07:36 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Went down last night and checked the water level. It hasn't dropped, well, maybe a half inch! I'm taking that as a good sign! Still 4' deep and holding!
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#387312 - 09/13/14 07:41 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Rainman]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Setter, get some water in a clear glass jar and let it sit undisturbed for 3-5 days to see if it clears. If it does, great, if not, you may want to act now rather than later. Feel free to call me any time if you like.


I'll get a jar filled up this morning. By Wednesday or Thursday I'll know if it's going to settle out or not. Also by then the wheat/fescue seed mix with straw over it, should be down.
I'll be getting in touch with you regarding the FHM.
Thanks
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#387381 - 09/14/14 12:32 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, I lucked out, timing wise. I was up there Saturday morning and the two guys that had been working on the pond decided it was time to cut in the spillway/pipe.
It's a 12" plastic sewer pipe.
It's set up to be 8" lower than the emergency spillways.
Cutting it in..

Pipe in place with bottom of seep collar showing. They used roofing tar around the pipe, bolted the two plastic sheets together then used tubing clamps completely around the collar. It won't be leaking through the collar.

Finished look..

They packed it in very solidly around the entrance to the pipe on the face of the dam and around both collars. Using a sledge to pound in the clay very tightly.
The filling in of the trench, I was a bit concerned about. Just packing it with the bucket on the track hoe. But they got all the dirt back in.
I also noticed where they were cutting in the slots for the seep collars, that digging with a hand shovel was very difficult. The clay in the core seemed as though it was very densely packed.
I filled a water bottle with pond water, from water near the surface. It's sitting in the barn. I'll take a look at it later this week to see if any of the clay is settling out.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#387531 - 09/16/14 08:42 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Rain man, I sent you a pm.. I need some FHMs..
Jeff
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#388022 - 09/23/14 08:38 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Back at the farm. Pond is down another inch, but I think it's from soaking into the ground and evaporation. We have had zero rain here with full sun and lower humidity.
The water has a green layer on it.
I am thinking it's what you guys call a algae bloom, but I'm not sure.
I also can't remember if it's good or bad. Ha
The frogs have found it. Seems like there is a small frog about every eight feet along the bank.
Last night there were a dozen bats flying back and forth over the clearing.
Water still has a lot of suspended clay, but some seems to be settling out.
25 bales of hay so far, and it's (the surrounding ground and dam) are about 50% covered.
This week continues to be dry. Rain in the forecast for next week though.
I'll try to post a pic of the green layer, if I can get a better signal.
Jeff
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388043 - 09/23/14 11:02 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
It's good that you have a healthy bat population. I remember the bats flying between us and the hummingbird feeder when sitting on the porch at night.

Yes, the green is phytoplankton showing up. That's the food chain starting up. Time for fatheads!!

Yes, the pond will ebb and flow water level wise until all the clay around the pond is saturated.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#388150 - 09/24/14 10:39 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Found a rock ledge exposed from some erosion.

It was about four inches under the clay. It starts near the expected water level, and runs about 10 feet down the bank. It looks like a solid layer of rock.
It's well above the bottom of the pond, and about three or four feet above the present water line. Get some clay and pack it??
Also here is a picture of the algae.

I bought 15 pounds of FHM yesterday and put them in.
I guess it's a little late this year to hope for a spawn. So, there's really no cover for them at all. (Except the muddy water should keep them safe.)
The guy selling the FHM said to hold off on the Golden Shiners. They get big and compete with the FHM for plankton. ??
Got a lot more straw down. Hoping for a bit of moisture next week.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388163 - 09/24/14 12:21 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Also, the guys that are Cash renting the two fields above the pond (alfalfa) applied round up on Monday, and fertilized on Tuesday.
The alfalfa looks very good for a mid summer planting.
My question is, I assume I'll get some round up and a lot of fertilizer coming in with the next rain.
Anything I should be aware of?
Just dumped in the 15 lbs of FHM yesterday, and noticed the big fertilizer truck racing through the fields.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388164 - 09/24/14 12:21 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Yes, get clay and pack over the rocks. Since it's still up in the air about the pond holding water, wait 'till Spring for the GHS. Stock them when the water temp is in the low to mid 60°F range, that way you'll be stocking them before they can spawn.

The only reason I'm saying wait is because you're not sure the pond won't leak. If you weren't concerned about that, I'd say toss them in now, and start getting your cover in the pond.

This will also allow you to monitor the pond during the winter to watch the water level. Once you are sure that it'll hold water, then get really busy in getting all your cover to put in the pond and stock the GSH.

Yep, that's a bloom starting to show up.

You might want to move your marking stick closer to the edge of the water too.....

Nothing to worry about re: round-up. By the time the next rain hits, you'll be fine. http://www.monsanto.com/products/documents/glyphosate-background-materials/gly_halflife_bkg.pdf

The fertilizer truck? maybe, maybe not. Not much you can do about it anyway. Sorta like crying over spilt milk. wink



Edited by esshup (09/24/14 12:28 PM)
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#388169 - 09/24/14 12:53 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Yep. I'm taking my waders up this weekend, to move the stick. Ha
Can I just dig up some clay with my tractor loader, put it in the back of the Ranger and haul it in?
I know I couldn't do anything about the fertilizer, just curious what the side effects would be.
Thx
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388890 - 10/04/14 09:09 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, I'm excited.. A big 6" rain came through and added another 5' to the pond depth. We have to be over 10' now.

So now it's wait and see. (See if it holds)
I'm thinking it's going to hold, but that's just hoping..

If it does hold, I'll have to add all my fish structure "post fill". I'm sure that's the worst way to do it.
I've had to move this 8' 2x2 three times (in waders) because the water has come up so dramatically.

Standing down below the drain pipe, it looks like 5 more feet and I'm full.
Wait until spring to add any fish, right? (I've got 15#s of FHM in now.)
Still amazed.. This was a tree covered ravine a few months ago.. Whew..
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388897 - 10/04/14 11:39 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6941
Loc: St Louis, MO area
It's looking great! Float any pallets for those FHM to spawn under?
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#388950 - 10/05/14 07:40 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Rainman]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: Rainman
It's looking great! Float any pallets for those FHM to spawn under?


I was going to, but the guy I got them from said they wouldn't spawn until spring?
Should I throw a few in, just in case?
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388951 - 10/05/14 07:45 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
This is just a slick of hay, sticks, ash from burning the tree tops, and I don't know what else. Will it eventually go away? Or do I need to chase it all down with a skimming net and get it out of the pond? Not particularly attractive.

Thanks
Jeff
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388961 - 10/05/14 11:10 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Rainman Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6941
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Jeff, it wouldn't hurt to put in some spawning structure that floats, just in case. The debris floating will eventually sink and decay on it's own. Also, once full pool is reached and you get some overflow, most anything still floating will get flushed out.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#388964 - 10/05/14 12:15 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4158
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I think you can use waxed cardboard from old produce boxes as well. You could string them together and stake them to the shore. They too will eventually rot.

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#388976 - 10/05/14 03:13 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
I'll take some stuff up Monday. I'm curious as can be, if the water level drops much.
So far, so good. The last rain came in on Thursday night, it hadn't dropped at all when I left late yesterday (Saturday) plus I can't see any water back behind the dam anywhere.
If it was going to leak, wouldn't it happen pretty quickly?
There's several smaller trees that are still piled up back in the woods outside the cleared area. I'll throw those in also to float around. Don't want to junk it up, but with some warm days coming up, if they decided to spawn, it seems like a lot of water for 15 pounds of flatheads. As muddy as the water is, I don't see how predator fish will ever find the minnows. Probably be better to wait for spring to do the aluminum treatment??
I think the spillways will be coming into play before spring, when we get a downpour, it really dumps into the pond.
I'll look for the waxed cardboard also.
Thanks for the suggestions.


Edited by SetterGuy (10/05/14 03:16 PM)
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#388980 - 10/05/14 04:40 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
The higher the water level the more psi is placed on the pond bottom. So, the jury is still out. But, from what I'm seeing, I think you'll be O.K.

Now are you still thinking that the overflow pipe is too small?? grin

The water that you are seeing now is why you heard from a few different people that a bigger overflow pipe is better than a smaller one. wink

I'd wait 'till Spring for an alum treatment. You want to have the banks covered with plants to prevent more clay from washing into the pond before the treatment.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#389010 - 10/06/14 07:33 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: esshup]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: esshup
The higher the water level the more psi is placed on the pond bottom. So, the jury is still out. But, from what I'm seeing, I think you'll be O.K.

Now are you still thinking that the overflow pipe is too small?? grin

The water that you are seeing now is why you heard from a few different people that a bigger overflow pipe is better than a smaller one. wink

I'd wait 'till Spring for an alum treatment. You want to have the banks covered with plants to prevent more clay from washing into the pond before the treatment.


Sounds like a plan. (On the alum treatment) hope to be stocking BG or HBG in the spring.
You know me, I'm a worrier. So now I'm worried that the pipe isn't big enough. Ha! But that's why there are the emergency spillways. They will see some water. 100% chance of rain for Thurs.
I'll get a pallet or three floating in there by tomorrow.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#389038 - 10/06/14 12:02 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
Another question. I told you I worry a lot.
The soil above the new drain pipe has settled a bit.
I would guess it settled about two or three inches on the back of the dam.
There is no evidence of it settling on the water side of the dam, or along the top.
The question is, should I try and get the guys back out and repack that area?
It's very soft now due to the 6" rain we just had. (Which caused the settling.)
And more rain coming. I don't want them causing more damage than necessary.
But, should I get it done before the water reaches where the pipe comes out the front of the dam?
Sorry,,, so many questions.
Thx
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#389048 - 10/06/14 01:11 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Time to get out your ruler or other measuring device. wink

From the NRCS booklet:
Settlement allowance—Settlement or consolidation
depends on the character of the materials in both the
dam and the foundation and on the construction
method. To allow for settlement, build earth dams
somewhat higher than the design dimensions. If your
dam is adequately compacted in thin layers under
good moisture conditions, there is no reason to expect
any appreciable settlement in the dam itself
, but the
foundation may settle. For a compacted fill dam on
unyielding foundation, settlement is negligible.
Most foundations are yielding, and settlement may
range from l to 6 percent of the height of the dam,
mainly during construction. The settlement allowance
for a rolled-fill dam should be about 5 percent of the
designed dam height.
In other words, the dam is built
5 percent higher than the designed height. After settlement,
the height of the dam will be adequate. Most
pond dams less than 20 feet high, however, are not
rolled fill. For these dams the total settlement allowance
should be about 10 percent.

I would get a rough estimate on how thick (vertical measurement) the area was that they dug out for the pipe. If the amount that it settled is within the NRCS parameters, then I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. If it exceeds that amount, then repack if it can be done without making a mess of the rest of the area.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#389292 - 10/10/14 08:34 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1265
Loc: NE Missouri
I talked with Bill about it. He noticed it also.
I think I have a plan to get it filled with my little tractor and loader.
He wasn't concerned structurally, but he was concerned about water channelling down that depression. I'll get it patched.
We are getting more rain, but it's a pretty gentle rain so far. No runoff.
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
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