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#386219 - 08/29/14 05:37 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, we should complete the earth work today, as far as the main pond construction goes. A small patch of good clay was uncovered late yesterday. One dozer operator commented, "that's the first really good clay we've seen, all 4 cubic yards of it!"
So, it hasn't been a stress free last few days
I was tempted to shut it down again, but pushing it through to the end.
We will just have to see what we end up with. Lots and lots of rock so far.
Can't get pics to load. I'll try again later.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#386521 - 09/02/14 11:53 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, the dam is complete (almost) you can see my Ranger sitting on the dam, if you look closely.


View from the dam, back along the western edge, shows the drop off and the soil type we were working with.



The Sheepsfoot roller shot craps, as we were finishing closing up the "notch" left open during construction, in case of rain. It worked "ok" until the last of this crucial section. Oh well.. It did have problems with rocks getting stuck in the rollers fairly often. It would then jam up and the rollers wouldn't turn. Finally one of the pivot shafts that was holding the left roller in place snapped. More than likely due to rocks jamming it up repeatedly.



This view shows the rocky clay we had to work with on the east side.



I'll try to get a few more uploaded showing the bottom of the pond.. I'm a bit concerned that a soft spot we hit, will turn out to be a seep. It at the pond' slowest spot.
Is there a possibility that the natural silting in of the pond will "self seal" this seep, in case it reverses flow with pressure, and starts to seep out?
Thanks
Jeff


Edited by SetterGuy (09/02/14 11:56 AM)
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386548 - 09/02/14 04:47 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
An additional picture.
This shows a small accumulation of water, after Friday's rain. It's remained the same for three days. I'm concerned it may be a seep,as the ground around it seems very soft.


Any soil/pond experts care to comment on what you've seen so far? eek I'm just a bit nervous this pond will hold water.

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386649 - 09/04/14 06:13 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Did I post this in the wrong section? I thought one or two of you more experienced pond builders may have a suggestion or two..
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386651 - 09/04/14 07:14 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13570
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
No, you didn't post in the wrong area. There are just so darn many unknowns that it's hard to say.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#386698 - 09/04/14 07:22 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Dave Davidson1]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
No, you didn't post in the wrong area. There are just so darn many unknowns that it's hard to say.


I was just kidding. I can't remember being so anxious about a process. There's a lot more to building a pond (in the woods, on rocky soil, with limited drainage) than I thought.

It was easier, getting married, having kids, building a home, changing jobs.. Ha

It's actually been fun, but a little stressful.

FYI, It is looking much better lately. I was up there again on Tuesday and had them ditch around the alfalfa fields above the pond to help get at least another acre of drainage.

Wish I could flick a switch and find out if it holds water or not.

Thanks
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386725 - 09/05/14 07:25 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
slabman98 Offline


Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 47
Loc: in,usa
Jeff, how big of a drainage area do you have and how big did the pond turn out to be?

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#386727 - 09/05/14 08:09 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: slabman98]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: slabman98
Jeff, how big of a drainage area do you have and how big did the pond turn out to be?

The pond is a little over an acre, and the drainage area is around nine acres.
The fields used to have wheat, and bean stubble in them, now they are in alfalfa. The alfalfa seems to keep a lot more of the water from coming through. Also included in the nine acres of drainage is four acres of heavily wooded hillside. The trees and undergrowth don't seem to let much moisture through either. We have had normal rainfall this year, but are coming off of two years of drought. I'm thinking the ground is still taking up moisture from the drought.
Hopefully late this fall we will get some big rains, or next spring for sure. The pond guy in the USDA office still wanted me to place a drain pipe in the dam for a primary spillway, then have a secondary spillway. He did say he'd prefer ten acres of drainage for a one acre pond, but he thought I'd be "ok" with the drainage I had. He said I was borderline on wether I needed a drain pipe. Taking the dozer up into the alfalfa fields had to have added at least an additional acre drainage. Now though I better get some fescue seed down in those new ditches along the edges of the fields.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386792 - 09/05/14 11:50 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Definately get the drains in there. If you do get a big rain, what will you do if the dam blows out? Where would you get the soil to repair the dam? After seeing the property, I'd feel much better with the drain that Bill wanted to put in. Remember that you won't have alfalfa in the field the whole time the pond is there!!! The job is 90% done, don't stop now!

Here in Minocqua, Wi, they had 6" of rain in 22 hrs yesterday. Places flooded where they never flooded before, some places that flooded a month ago, just flooded again, right after they finished doing the repairs..............
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www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#386796 - 09/06/14 01:19 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6968
Loc: St Louis, MO area
I'm with esshup, you should very seriously consider installing a primary drainage system. You're not too far north of me and at the very least, you need an overflow "emergency" spillway at least 15 foot wide and 2 feet below the lowest part of your dam. The E spillway should also be cut to drain water completely away from any part of the dam to avoid dam erosion and a breech.

A one acre pond with only 10 acres of watershed is "borderline" on a drain, because you really need 15 acres of watershed to support one surface acre of water there.

If you still have your pond builders there, you should really consider installing a 4-6 inch siphon system. That will move a lot of water when in full withdrawal mode, is reasonably priced for the pocket book, and could save your nerves (and a dam breech) when you get those 10-15" rain events we are never supposed to have here.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#386801 - 09/06/14 08:29 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Rainman]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: Rainman
I'm with esshup, you should very seriously consider installing a primary drainage system. You're not too far north of me and at the very least, you need an overflow "emergency" spillway at least 15 foot wide and 2 feet below the lowest part of your dam. The E spillway should also be cut to drain water completely away from any part of the dam to avoid dam erosion and a breech.

A one acre pond with only 10 acres of watershed is "borderline" on a drain, because you really need 15 acres of watershed to support one surface acre of water there.

If you still have your pond builders there, you should really consider installing a 4-6 inch siphon system. That will move a lot of water when in full withdrawal mode, is reasonably priced for the pocket book, and could save your nerves (and a dam breech) when you get those 10-15" rain events we are never supposed to have here.


Putting in a 12" pipe. The pipe came in yesterday, but the two 42"x42" seep collars did not arrive yet. They hope to have them Monday, and will put in the pipe on Tuesday.
They've also cut in an emergency spillway at both ends of the dam. They are 2' below the top of the dam. I'm getting fescue seed on those as soon as they get the pipe cut in.
I'm thinking with a 12" drain pipe (9" below the emergency spillways) and the two emergency spillways, I should be ok?
I can't add any more drainage area, without doing some serious earth work, so 10 acres will have to do it.
It's a deep one acre pond, with a 17' depth at the dam, and a pretty steep slope all the way around. We needed the dirt for the dam.
I'm sorry I gave you guys the impression that we were not going to put in the pipe, we've just been waiting for it to arrive. (Plastic)
They had some rain up there yesterday, but I don't know if it was enough to get any runoff.
Thanks for the replies..
Jeff


Edited by SetterGuy (09/06/14 08:30 AM)
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386803 - 09/06/14 08:52 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
FYI, they got the Sheepsfoot roller fixed and went over the entire bottom of the pond, and the front (water side) of the dam with it, several times. I know it might be too little, too late, but it was broken down during the last day of dam construction.
They also took the big dozer and added a bit of dirt to the back of the dam, and then he went up and down the entire length of the dam to put tracks in for holding seed.
I'm going to plant wheat in the pond area (it will need a bit of lime) and put in fescue everywhere else. All over the dam, and the surrounding areas.
I was going to try and put in some warm season grasses, but went with fescue for ease, and cost.


Edited by SetterGuy (09/06/14 09:42 AM)
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386807 - 09/06/14 12:32 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5183
Loc: SE Kansas
I'm in SE Kansas and when fescue is planted in the fall I like to mix in some wheat with it. The fescue is very slow to establish and very small plants and root system till it gets a year old or so. It provides very little erosion control till it gets established. The wheat (or winter oats should work too) establishes a quick cover with good root system to hold the soil in place during the fall. Then come next summer the wheat matures and when you mow it the stubble provides mulch to further help with erosion control.

Generally if I'm forced to plant fescue in the spring I don't want the wheat because it saps too much moisture from the fescue and can increase the chances of a kill off because the ground gets too dry for the fescue. But that is rarely a problem "here" in the fall and I doubt if it is where you are at also.

The wheat actually slows the establishment of the fescue as it takes resources away from it. So there is kind of a trade off. But in rolling ground where erosion can become a real problem, I favor the quick establishment of the wheat.

Disregard all of the above if you are going to use erosion mats or blow on hay or straw over or with the fescue. That might be enough to take care of the first year erosion problem. I'm talking about if you are seeding on bare ground. The trick is to get something to stop the erosion before a large rain event causes erosion rills to develop. Makes it awfully rough mowing later.


Edited by snrub (09/06/14 12:33 PM)
_________________________
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I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#386813 - 09/06/14 02:12 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Got it. Sounds like I could use wheat mixed in with the fescue on the dam, and all the ground above the water line, and just pure wheat seed below the water line.
Thanks!
I think the local seed dealer has wheat tailings I can get for a bit less $$.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386827 - 09/07/14 09:26 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
Rainman Offline
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Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6968
Loc: St Louis, MO area
We used annual Ryegrass, buck oats and wheat for quick root establishment.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#386831 - 09/07/14 11:47 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: Rainman]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5183
Loc: SE Kansas
That sounds like a good mix Rex. The main reason I use wheat is that we usually have a bin full of it saved for seed on the farm and is easy to just go get some of the uncleaned wheat and spread it.

But if someone has to buy the seed, there may be better options, like the mix you suggested.


Edited by snrub (09/07/14 11:48 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#386849 - 09/07/14 09:06 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: snrub]
esshup Offline
Moderator
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
How wide will the emergency spillways be?
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#386881 - 09/08/14 10:34 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: esshup]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: esshup
How wide will the emergency spillways be?


They are both 2' below the top of the dam, and 12' wide.
We've added so much water to the drainage area, by ditching around the alfalfa fields up above the pond, now I'm concerned that if we get a really huge rain, I'll have a lot of water coming in..
They are supposed to be putting in the pipe today. I had to work, so all I can do is keep my fingers crossed that they are doing it the right way. They were waiting for the (2) 42" x 42" seep collars to arrive today. I'm going to try and sneak up there Wednesday. I'll take some pictures of the pipe, emergency spillways, etc.. There is a severe thunderstorm warning for Wednesday, but just 60% chance if rain. Still munching tums, waiting to see if this thing will hold water, and fill.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386909 - 09/08/14 05:07 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I'd see if you can pick up 200-400 pounds of bentonite and spread it over the rock that is exposed, making a "cap" of bentonite over the rock, and incorporating it into the soil immediately surrounding the rock. For what bentonite costs, it's cheap insurance if the pond is thinking about leaking at the rock.....

Throw it in the back of the Ranger and see if you can get it spread out over the rock before the rain. You might have more water coming into the pond than you think.....
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#386913 - 09/08/14 07:21 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
I called Bill tonight, to let him know I could make it up there until
late Wednesday. It'll be too late by then. He said there's a foot of water in it from Friday's rain. It was a 1/2". The rain coming tomorrow and Wednesday is supposed to be over a inch. I'll just have to check it out when I get up there.
Were you meaning to throw the bentonite down over the whole east side, or just the large 3'x3' rock?
I can't really tell if that rock will be under or not, I just can't remember how far from the deepest spot it was situated.
Thanks
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#386929 - 09/09/14 12:28 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
Moderator
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Just the rock and some soil surrounding the rock.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#387063 - 09/10/14 02:40 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
I've got several feet of water. Muddy water.
The rock I was thinking about claying in is under.
I guess it's wait and see if it holds water.
Got some pics..
Shallow end

Dam end

From shallow end, looking towards dam

It's about 4.5' deep at the deepest point. From a big rain (4"), and a smaller .5" rain earlier.
I pounded a 8' 2x2 into the bottom in about 3' of water. Marked it, and will track it.
What would be a normal drop in water level for a brand new pond?

Thanks
Jeff


Edited by SetterGuy (09/11/14 07:15 AM)
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#387105 - 09/10/14 07:32 PM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Any idea what the rainfall amount was?
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#387132 - 09/11/14 07:17 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: esshup]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: esshup
Any idea what the rainfall amount was?


The inter web says 1.71". My neighbor said he had 3.5" in his rain gauge.
I tend to lean with the neighbor's gauge.

I posted the pics in my previous post.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#387226 - 09/12/14 10:31 AM Re: Picking a pond builder [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1302
Loc: NE Missouri
I'm going up tomorrow to check it. If it hasn't dropped very much, should I go ahead and put in the fathead minnows? It at least 4' deep at the deepest point.
I just want to give them the best chance of taking off.
Also, should I throw in a bale or two of hay? The water is very muddy.
The seeding will go on as soon as possible. Wheat seed mixed in with the fescue.
Thx
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
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