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#481264 - 10/18/17 05:02 PM Is this an Israeli Carp?
Mal Offline


Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Virginia
I caught a far bigger Israeli Carp many, maybe 20 years ago. If it is an IC, are they reproducing or could they vary in size that much over all these years. They are behaving strangely, milling about near the surface in groups of 3 to maybe 6.

Incidentally, he didn't bite the worm, he was caught with a 16 gauge.


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1.3 A renovation summer 2017, SW VA, 2000' elevation, Shallow, Spring Fed, Little Watershed, Stock Fall '17 with LMB, BG, RESF, FHM, indigenous, Triploid Grass Carp, Israeli Carp, GSH

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#481265 - 10/18/17 05:32 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2142
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
That looks like a common carp to me.

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#481266 - 10/18/17 07:31 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Mal Offline


Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Virginia
I'll bet you're right. I can't think that there would be Israeli carp smaller than what I caught years ago. They were supposed to be sterile.

Likely a helpful neighbor stocked the pond while I was away and they have multiplied....

Yet, aren't most common carp covered with scales?


Edited by Mal (10/18/17 07:38 PM)
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1.3 A renovation summer 2017, SW VA, 2000' elevation, Shallow, Spring Fed, Little Watershed, Stock Fall '17 with LMB, BG, RESF, FHM, indigenous, Triploid Grass Carp, Israeli Carp, GSH

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#481267 - 10/18/17 07:43 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2142
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Mal
(snip)
Yet, aren't most common carp covered with scales?


Yes, large scales. It might be a Koi that has reverted to carp after a few generations. Unauthorized bucket stocking is common. I think I might be a victim of it.

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#481274 - 10/18/17 08:53 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12738
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I would call the fish in the picture an Israeli. Israeli are not sterile and readily reproduce in similar fashion as common carp - broadcasting sticky eggs. The book Fishes of Arkansas says the Israeli carp most closely resembles the mirror carp. The authors of the book recognize four forms of carp; common, mirror, leather, and Israeli.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/18/17 09:26 PM)
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#481304 - 10/19/17 09:34 AM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Mal Offline


Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Virginia
Thanks Bill.

My theory now is that, maybe 30+ years ago, my dad and grandad put Israeli Carp in the pond to control weeds. I thought they were sterile, they may have thought that too but possibly they were asked if there were LMB in the pond thinking they would control their reproduction. Likely the LMB did just that until a termite treatment gone bad killed everything but the Israeli and Grass Carp added later. I am confident the Grass Carp are sterile.

When the muskrats holed a bank, drew the pond down and the normal Spring feed stopped, the pond had little circulation and stayed low and muddy until I repaired the banks and restored the feed this summer. Grass and Israeli carp kept it muddy for many years. Now it has cleared considerably and has a healthy color. I have added cover and will stock this fall (FHM, BG, RESF, LMB) and hope for the best.

I have to take every opportunity to thank the forum for its advice, direct and indirect. Pond management might well be a known science but ponds and lakes vary so much that there are few absolutes and anecdotal evidence is really valuable. Though I've been with this pond off and on for 60+ years, I've never enjoyed it more. This forum has had quite a positive effect on that enjoyment ..... thanks for that.



Edited by Mal (10/19/17 09:35 AM)
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1.3 A renovation summer 2017, SW VA, 2000' elevation, Shallow, Spring Fed, Little Watershed, Stock Fall '17 with LMB, BG, RESF, FHM, indigenous, Triploid Grass Carp, Israeli Carp, GSH

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#481440 - 10/21/17 10:22 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24032
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I was going to say Mirror Carp, but it also could be an Israeli.

To control weeds, look into Triploid White Amur or Triploid Grass Carp. (same fish)

Make sure that they are certified Triploid by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The certification process is as follows:

Each fish is blood tested and the chromosomes are checked to verify each fish is a true Triploid. The fish are put in 5,000 fish lots. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pulls "X" number of fish from that lot and tests those fish again for triploid chromosomes. If any fail, the whole lot is rejected and each fish has to be re-tested.

Triploid Grass Carp will do a better job of eating underwater weeds and will not reproduce.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#481472 - 10/22/17 01:47 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Mal Offline


Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Virginia
The grass carp are there... and really big. I don't know how many are there but I think 12 were put in 20 or so years ago. I have read they should be replaced but feel they and/or the Israelis are still doing the job, maybe even too well.


Edited by Mal (10/22/17 01:48 PM)
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1.3 A renovation summer 2017, SW VA, 2000' elevation, Shallow, Spring Fed, Little Watershed, Stock Fall '17 with LMB, BG, RESF, FHM, indigenous, Triploid Grass Carp, Israeli Carp, GSH

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#490101 - 05/15/18 12:08 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Mal Offline


Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Virginia
Since identifying that Israeli carp, Iíve taken 10 out one way or another and they are still a mystery. I caught one maybe 20 years ago that was about 30 lbs. All these are 17 inches or so long. Iíve seen none longer or shorter and none like I caught years ago. There are lots left and they often behave like they are spawning. The Lake hasnít cleared as much as I want and they, no doubt, are why.

I feel certain they will be unable to reproduce, further? due to the bass and bluegill I stocked last fall but I still want to remove some more until the water clears some more.

I would sure be interested in theories about how this happened and ways to remove them.
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1.3 A renovation summer 2017, SW VA, 2000' elevation, Shallow, Spring Fed, Little Watershed, Stock Fall '17 with LMB, BG, RESF, FHM, indigenous, Triploid Grass Carp, Israeli Carp, GSH

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#490107 - 05/15/18 01:03 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1969
Loc: West Michigan
clearly they are reproducing

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#490134 - 05/15/18 09:00 PM Re: Is this an Israeli Carp? [Re: Mal]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12738
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Use some of the carp angling methods shown on YouTube. Look at hair rigs and baiting/chumming the carp.
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