Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond construction (do it yourself dozer work).

Pond construction (do it yourself dozer work).

I was wonder about doing the dozer work on a pond myself even though I have almost no experience (I’ve ran a dozer a total of maybe 2 hours - with assistance, but I am pretty good with a bobcat). I found were I could rent a dozer for a FULL WEEK for just a little more $ than it would cost me to pay someone to run a dozer for ONE FULL DAY on my place. Am I crazy, or could a normal person be capable of building a pond????????????????????

I have a friend who is an operator and volunteered arrange to get the dozer on my place and come out one day and get me started. I could take a full weeks vacation and go to town 12 hours a day for a full week. Again, am I crazy – any suggestions? Maybe I’m just having a wild hair.

There are discussions about this on the board, but a quick recap, as I have considered the same thing myself. Dozers are expensive to fix and break down somewhat frequently. I've never leased a large piece of equipment, but some leases, I've heard, either share the cost of repair or put it all on you.

Also, large area work often requires two pieces, the dozer and an excavator. What are you planning to do? Working on virgin ground is one thing, but working on an existing pond is a different critter all together.

I know of farmers around here (who are used to working with big equipment but not necessarily dozers) who have done this, so its not impossible. Hopefully some of the experts will chime in.

For me, it has been said that I have more money than sense (not a hard feat) and I will probably try this myself at one point or another.

I think you're crazy to try it yourself. During summers between college years I ran a dozer a little working at a gravel pit. The experienced guys pull manouvers and inclines where a normal person will die trying, especially if the dozer has high tracks. Add the experience of "ripping" rocks, it would make an interesting experiment. With clear flat land, sure...try it. If you have trees, roots, rocks, and hills...leave it to the pro's. The combination of gas/torque/leverage is fun to watch.

I know a guy that bought a Harley & took his daughter on a trip across country for her 16th birthday! He sold the bike when he got back for a small profit.
I have heard of some doing the same with heavy eqp.

Svoberts, good point -- I should explain what I am going to try to do. There is a drainage (not deep but wide that runs through my property shaped like a coke bottle. At the widest point it is maybe 50 yards and at the end where the dam would be it is probably 18 to 20 yards with an average and the average depth is about 10 feet and it is all in woods. I was going to have the area logged (leaving enough stumps to get a hold of with a dozer). On a very basic level, I'd just scrape it out, remove the stumps and have clay delivered for the dam and any where else that needs it. I have the option to make it larger but I know that would take a pro. Right now what I am looking at has no steep grades, except at the were the dam would be (where it bottle necks). I'm just debating this in my head and I am actually leaning toward using someone, but I just wanted to kick the idea around with some people of knowledge and past experience.

Several of my friends who are farmers think I am crazy to hire someone, but that comes back to what you said Svoberts.

I agree Eastland -- those guys that know what they are doing make it look too easy.

Ric, I guess I'd need insurance on the thing if I did that, but it did cross my mind. I'd keep it for a year and it would be a lot of fun if I did not mess it up or worse (heaven forbid).

I'd like to hear some more please! Thanks a lot!

Just put a track back on. Once should be enough. That should cure you from messing around with anything painted yellow.

Good point, Dave. I was an Army Tank Mechanic long ago and far away. Tracked vehicles "throw track" when something gets stuck in the inside, when you spin the tracks on an incline, or whenever else it is inconvienent. Then you almost always need another heavy piece of equipment to get you back up on solid ground get the track and the equipment lined back up straight. I went to tank recovery school back in 1990. Some of the things they teach you are how to "swim" in mud while dragging a 9/16" cable (in order to then drag out the 1" cable) and how to use a cutting torch. My vehicle once threw track 5 times in 5 days (bad track, not bad driving). I never wanted to see a tracked vehicle again after that.

Little Dog--

Doing it yourself would be tremendous if it worked out--what an achievement! Then again, there are few things sadder than seeing a piece of equipment abandoned in the middle of a project with morning glory vines and ironweed growing up through the tracks and big swales cut through the dirt by the runoff. There also is a level of personal risk which has to be taken into account; people do have accidents while driving heavy equipment up and down steep slopes. There is the value of time: Having a pond filling up with water in three weeks might be as rewarding as doing it yourself in six months' time. And there is the value of a warranty and someone else's insurance policy: If something bad happens, you're not in it alone.

A few things come to mind based on our experience. First, the fellow who put in our pond grew up using just dozers to build ponds (starting when he was 12!), and now that he's taken over his uncle's company, he uses a dozer and a trackhoe, which he believes cuts his time by about 60%. For example, what will you do with 1,000 stumps? He dug a 20'-deep hole with his hoe, dropped/pushed all the stumps into it layering clay as he went, and compacted dirt over the top. How will you cut your dam keyway? The hoe did it in hours. Then, there are issues like if you hit bedrock, do you seal it off, and how? Finally, somebody who's done it a bunch is more likely to hit an aesthetic bullseye with things like grade, shoreline, etc., simply by virtue of experience.

Anyway, if you decide to go it alone, what about establishing a relationship with a pond contractor before you start, getting him to agree to consult with you on a daily/weekly or whatever basis for an hourly rate, and then having him tapped to come in and bail things out if things start to get sideways, and/or to come in and actually handle critical junctures like clay compaction, sealing rock layers, etc.?

I'm considering the same but my new pond(s) (I raise fish for sale and need a couple more ponds) will only be a couple of steepsided pits about 50 feet by 80 feet. I don't see that terrribly involved.

The problem in my area with contractors is, out of five I contacted only three showed up to give me an estimate, and only one out of those three had a clue to what a core trench or keyway was. My last contractor won't be back as he didn't even scrape off the sod when he installed the dam on my last pond (I wasn't able to be around when he did that)and of course it seeps somewhat although not too bad over time. He also tried to pack it once the entire damn was installed which is pretty dumb.

If you do it yourself be absolutely sure you understand what a core trench is for your dam and do it RIGHT! From what my engineering texts say, a sheepsfoot roller is almost mandatory and the dam should be packed in 20 cm layers, and of course you need to dig a trench (core trench or keyway) under the dam which is filled back in, in layers. Nothing worse than seepage under a dam!

I have not actually contacted any big equipment rentals, but I would absolutely think it is imperative that they have some kind of insurance for breakdowns etc., and will come out and fix the equipment pronto.

Also get equipment that is big enough. Most of my local rentals don't have big enough equipement to do the job.

Little Dog,
This is just my own experience, so gain what you can from it. Last Fall, I rented a D-8 to muck out/deepen my existing pond. $25 worth of 'insurance' paid for ANY breakdown, even a roll-over, I might have. Did the same again this year with a D-7, and the feeling I get looking at the job I did is consistantly awesome. For what cost me $8,500 would have been well over $20,000 if a contactor had performed the work. Advice? If the equipment renter will not provide insurance? Run away, run away! BTW, what size Cat are you considering? A D-8 drinks about 100+ Gals a day, but at a reduced "off road fuel" price, plus don't forget hauling fees. The advice I got from an old timer worked: "start pushing the dirt. It will go where it wants to go." And my pond worked out just fine. (I added lots of "shape and taper" to that advice. ) Warning: a large Cat weighs 30 to 40 tons, so if there is even a HINT of wetness, figure in renting another Cat of at least same size to pull it out.

LD, want to add this: Cecil is absolutely RIGHT ON about the sheeps foot on new construction. In Oregon, the Army Corp of Engineers actually comes out and does 'compaction tests' to make sure your down stream neighbors are safe. (-:

Very good advice from all -- thanks a lot! Honestly, I've thought about this a lot since I posted (a whole LOT) and I'll probably have some one do it. Several reasons, the two biggest is I'll have a bunch of stumps and I'm also worried about bedrock.

The one time I did operate a dozer it took me three times as long to get a stump out as my buddy (an operator). If it were on open ground I'd probably give it a shot. Thanks again, and I'll be lurking with more questions as I go.

Little Dog,
There is nothing in this world that is more fun than running a dozer, or track hoe- as long as it belongs to someone else. Whatever you rent, buy or borrow is guaranteed to break. That's when the frustration begins. Even if you don't have to pay for the repairs- the down time sucks. Especially when you have made arrangements to take off work.

I can't tell where you live, but I promise you there is a pro near you that can be in and out in a week or two and will do it for a reasonable price. The NRD office in Nebraska will provide a list of contractors that they have used to build dams in the past. They won't recommend one, but at least you will have a list to start from.

You could always rent a small backhoe or a skid loader and work on building your structure, or an island or a point.

Just my opinion, but I'd hate to see your fun ruined!

Brad B.

I agree with Brad B., I hired an contractor to cut the dam of an existing 3 acre lake and rebuild it couple of feet taller. He used a track hoe, track loader, and a bulldozer to do the job. One day he was short an operator, so he let me run the D6 bulldozer. Everything was going fine until I cut into a spring. The dozer was instantly stuck. He used the trackhoe to dig out and pull the dozer out. After the dam was complete I rented an ASV-100 rubber track loader and dug out the shallow end, cut some channels, built an underwater hump, a point, and placed cover. Finishing up the lake myself saved money and I really enjoyed building the structure.

Sounds like that would be fun adding structure after the pond is built. I really like this site -- you folks have some great ideas!

The last two weeks:

I've been at it for 4-years now. We are digging six ponds from 0.3 to just over 2-acres. We currently own a Cat 235B Excavator, John Deere 690B excavator, DJB 350C six wheel articulated dump, and a John Deere 850 dozer. This story happened last week and is typical of the struggle.

Decided to change the bucket pin on the 235B, because it had been very loose and wouldn't hold grease. Pulled it out and it was in pretty bad shape. Ordered the bearings and had the pin made (about $600). Cat quoted $2,200 to line bore the end of the stick. We got another quote for $850. A mechanic friend decided to try it with my help. Still cost $700. After a week without the machine and about 30-hours of labor, we finally had the new pin in last Saturday at 10 PM. Went down Sunday morning ready to finally get some work done. Hauled one truck load and filled the truck again (40 yards total). Heard a pop and looked behind me and saw that I had blown a 5,000 PSI hose on the excavator (nice rainbow, though). Since the truck was full I still had to haul the sand and dump it. On the way back I started to smell a sweet odor and finally realized it was anti-freeze. Popped the hood on the truck and saw that the radiator hose had blown. Down for the rest of the week and another $350 on hoses and several special tools, not to mention daily grease and oil baths. Finally managed to get some work done this weekend except that after replacing the radiator hose on the truck it wouldn't start because it has a broken throttle cable (this week's project). If I could afford it, I would have had someone else do the work. My permits expire at the end of the year and its going to be close barring any more major break downs. If anyone wants some lessons, we feed well and always find time for fishing (but the pay stinks).