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#488578 - 04/14/18 08:31 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1296
Loc: NE Missouri
Bob, looks like we received over an inch of rain here yesterday in St Louis. Of course, only .2 up at our pond, but Im hoping you got some good runoff. Hows the water holding?
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#488581 - 04/14/18 09:48 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
We had 0.92" here. Less than most of our state. One pond (leaker) is down 9-1/2 inches, the other one about 1-1/4".
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#488586 - 04/14/18 12:51 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks Jeff, it's still dropping to fast. Not as fast as it did the first time it came up but not a lot better. I got about 1.3" of rain last night which gained me about 6" in the pond. I'm thinking about buying a small semi trash pump so I can pump water from my old pond, but I would need about 400' of hose and I would have to pump it about 50' high to get it over the hill in between the 2 ponds. The old pond isn't very big but has more run off and if I could pump while we're getting some rain, then I could probably pump a lot of water.
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#488843 - 04/19/18 08:33 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Anyone know if a normal 2" semi-trash pump will pump 400' and over a 40'-50' hill?I'm thinking since it would also be going down hill on the other side of the hill,that the hill wouldn't matter as much?Anyone having good luck with any brands, models?
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Bob


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#488849 - 04/19/18 09:41 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob,
I had a Harbor Freight 2" pump that I put over 200 hours on and it was still going strong. The only problem with it was that the engine was oversized for the pump so it used too much gas. Sold that one and bought a 2" Honda that uses about half the gas and pumps a little more water per hour.

Yes, it will pump 400 feet. The volume will depend on TOTAL lift plus distance. If you are pumping 50 feet high over a hill, then the pipe goes downhill 25 feet, then the total lift is 25 feet.

I am getting about 3,800 GPH with a total lift of 16 feet and 490 feet of pipe. The slicker the pipe, the more volume you will get. I have some poly pipe with UHMW liner. It's very slick inside.
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#488853 - 04/19/18 10:50 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John!It would be almost the same down hill as up hill.I would probably just use PVC hose.
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Bob


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#488860 - 04/20/18 05:53 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6962
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Using 3 inch discharge and intake will increase flow over a long distance...even 4" sewer and drain PVC is really cheap...
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#488875 - 04/20/18 10:01 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I thought of larger pipe for mine too, but the 2" pipe is heavy and stiff enough. Anything larger is impossibly stiff and expensive, at least for me. Hopefully, pumping will eventually be only a very occasional thing for both Bob and I.
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#488877 - 04/20/18 10:06 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1296
Loc: NE Missouri
I have no place to pump from, not going to put in, or run a well. Luckily the leak continues to slow, because Im sure not getting any rain..
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#488880 - 04/20/18 11:06 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks Guys!I sure haven't seen as much rain this Spring as I thought I would so far.
I don't want to spend to much on this, if I do it, since I can only get so much water out of the old pond.I also can't set up anything to permanent right now because the straight line from pond to pond is where we want to build at.There is also a 911 tower on the back of my property (they pay rent) so I can't block my road.It was there when we bought the property and is a big pain in my azz!
John,do you mind saying what you spent on your set up,and what brand you got?
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Bob


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#488947 - 04/21/18 04:00 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Looks like Snrub may be in for a good rain!
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#488948 - 04/21/18 04:21 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bobbss

John,do you mind saying what you spent on your set up,and what brand you got?


I had first a Harbor Freight 2" water pump. It was relatively cheap and worked great. I put over 200 hours on it in less than two years.
Around $200 with coupon.

After I decided it was going to be a long term thing, I sold the HF on CL and bought a Honda pump. The Honda WB20XT3 model pumps about 7% more water than the HF and uses about half the gas, and is somewhat quieter. Around $375.

The two inch poly pipe, I got from the scrap pile at the local electric cooperative. They use it for conduit for buried HV cable. They don't like to splice it, so when it gets too short for a run, it becomes scrap. I only had to haul it away (not easy, it's stiff and springy) and buy some external 2" PVC slip splices so to not reduce the diameter, a ball valve, strainer, and short length of 2" sch 40 PVC. Probably spent $40.

The pipe is so slick it will back out of the compression splices unless it is banded together with clamps and strapping. Bob, if you are interested, I can send you some pictures, instructions, etc.

I have become proficient at laying everything out, pumping, and putting it all away in proper order.

I am pumping about 490 feet with a total lift of about 16 feet, get about 3,800-4,000 gallons per hour.

Note: if you are starting from scratch, you will need to also buy 15-20 feet of suction hose (got mine much cheaper online). It's about $4/ft at TSC.


Edited by John Fitzgerald (04/21/18 04:26 PM)
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#488950 - 04/21/18 05:00 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John!I will probably have to buy some of the cheap flat hose,but if you get time it would be great to see some pictures.
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Bob


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#488953 - 04/21/18 06:02 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob, Unless you can find a great deal, 350 feet of flat hose will cost nearly as much as the pump. The suction hose has to be fairly rigid. Flat hose won't work on the suction end.

You could check with an electric utility that puts in a lot of underground as in subdivisions. They don't like to splice any poly pipe shorter than about 150 feet, and it ends up as scrap to be dumped or recycled. A friend of mine got some 4 inch to do some irrigation, but he said it was so stiff he had to bury it to hold it from re rolling. The 2 inch is about as big as I can handle.
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#488954 - 04/21/18 06:05 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
John,it looks like the one you have isn't a semi-trash pump.Do you have any trouble pumping dirty water?
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Bob


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#488955 - 04/21/18 06:32 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
John,thats the main reason I don't have at least a cheap one right now.I went to Northern Tool and a few other places today to look at some.If I buy a cheap pump, the 400' of discharge hose and 20' suction hose will cost more than the pump.I stopped yesterday at the place I rented one from,to see what they sell and was considering renting one again to see how well it would work before I started buying things.They told me they will only rent one with a max of 100' of hose,that that was all the farther they could pump.
_________________________
Bob


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#488958 - 04/21/18 07:23 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John,it looks like the one you have isn't a semi-trash pump.Do you have any trouble pumping dirty water?


Bob,
After a rain, I wait until the creek clears to about eight inches plus of visibility before I pump. After a few days, the creek will have over three feet of clear visibility.

If I can see the bottom of a five gallon bucket a little over half full, I am good to go. I have had zero problems.

I put the suction strainer down into a one gallon bucket, then completely surround the bucket with window screening and go a little way up the suction hose with the screening, clamping on both ends to make a good filter with a large area.

This is to prevent sucking up pebbles, leaf particles, etc.

They will pump an indefinite distance over level ground. The rental companies don't want to rent more than 100 feet per pump.

I got the pipe first, then bought the pump after working out the pipe situation, knowing with full confidence that it would work.
_________________________

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#488969 - 04/21/18 10:48 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
John is there a reason you didn't want to go with a semi trash pump?
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Bob


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#488972 - 04/21/18 11:32 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John is there a reason you didn't want to go with a semi trash pump?


When water is not completely opaque, the semi trash is not needed. They are more expensive and don't pump as much water, as the clearances are a little greater. Mine is rated to handle very small solids.

When I pump, I usually pump all day, and need the highest efficiency possible. Sometimes, in the summer, after a good rain, there is only sufficient clear flow in the creek for one or two days of pumping. The creek is usually too muddy the first day, and I would not want all that mud in the pond, so the trash pump would not be useful anyway.
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#488976 - 04/22/18 12:21 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John.
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Bob


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#489072 - 04/23/18 08:40 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Bob, Here's a picture of my pump setup in action.


Attachments
IMG_20180423_175505.jpg (104 downloads)

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#489079 - 04/23/18 11:17 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks John!I wish I had a creek like you,where I could pump as much as I want.It would be worth doing for sure then.
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Bob


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#489092 - 04/24/18 10:23 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2011
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!I wish I had a creek like you,where I could pump as much as I want.It would be worth doing for sure then.


Bob,
It's an intermittent stream. I can't pump at all in the drier months, sometimes not for 5 months straight. I only wish it ran all year.
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#489115 - 04/24/18 09:25 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
John it would be really nice to have a year round creek,right now I'd be happy if I had one that I could pump out of during the spring.
_________________________
Bob


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#489879 - 05/09/18 11:58 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 319
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
It's been a while so I thought I'd update,not that I have anything good to update about.lol!The pond is still dropping and I've lost most of the water I gained back in march.The only good thing I can say is it dropped slower this time than it did last time and seems to be getting slower as time goes on.
I've only had 2 rains since March that was big enough to add any water,enough to cover a few days losses each.I've also had a few small ones but most of the good rains seem to keep missing me.I've gotten no where near as much rain as I thought I would this spring.I have a chance for some next week but I won't hold my breath.lol!
When we build on the property we will have to have a well drilled so I'm going to see if I can up grade the well to be able to help keep the pond filled.Is anyone using the same well to feed their pond and house both?
In the center of my pond there is around 1 1/2' of mud-silt,I was wondering if I stirred it up some every now and then,if it would maybe draw into the seeps and help seal things?
If I ever get enough rain I might also try some Soilfloc.
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Bob


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