Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking What have I gotten into and how do I keep it?

New member here, lots of good knowledge on this forum.

Anyways, so I've got about a 1/3 ac pond, about 13 ft deep at normal pool. It's not in a great spot, it's surrounded by woods, dam leaks, very rocky, no aeration, no feeding. But I'll be damned if the fishing isn't pretty good. Long story short, we bought the place about 6 years ago, pond already existed and I haven't actively managed it up until the last couple years I started tracking the catches. Pond is about 17 years old.

First time I fished it I pulled out about an 11" Crappie (forgive my lack of acronyms). My first thought was, "oh crap". But this wasn't no ordinary Crappie, it was a Blacknose Crappie. For the first few years 9" - 11" Crappie were pretty normal, and for the most part the targeted species for our consumption. We probably pulled out an average of 20 per year for the last 6 years for eating.

I never thought the LMB or bluegill fishing was ever going to be great, until last year, here's what was caught:

LMB (lb.oz) - 1.14, 2.2, 2.13, 2.5, 3.7, 4.1, 4.14, 5.0 (20 inches)
Bluegill (inches) - 9, 7.5, 8.75, 9.5
Crappie (inches) - 11 to 14.25, this year 13 incher weighing 1 lb 5 oz.

Obviously, more than this was caught, a good mix really of all sizes for all species, but the above are the bigger ones I took the time to measure/weigh.

It seems to me I'm at a point that has a good mix of sizable bass and good-eating Crappie. How do I keep this trend going? Is it even sustainable? Do the Blacknose Crappie not spawn as much? I fully expected the pond to overrun with Crappie by now, but I've pulled out some nice bass in all sizes for where I am.

My goal for this pond is to harvest enough Crappie to eat/cull numbers and grow larger bass. Here's what I was planning for harvesting numbers annually for you guys to give feedback on:

LMB - 10 - 15 (8-12")
Crappie - 20 - 25
Bluegill - 6 - 8 (>8")
Channel Cat - 2 - 4

What do you guys think? Good plan? Ideas? If by harvesting a few bass will my Crappie population explode? I'm sure there is a lot of info missing, forgive me.

If you had to pick one, which species would you want to prioritize?

You have a small pond and many mouths to feed. It's hard to have big crappie and big bass.

That's a pretty tough choice, it's the best Crappie fishing I've ever done, they are far fatter than the ones I pull out of the lake. It's hard to pass up good table fare. But I don't need huge Crappie to be satisfied, the 11 - 13" that I'm getting now are providing more than I need to eat.

My biggest question is, can this balance I have now continue? And how did it get to this point anyways? The pond hasn't been managed for the first 15 years of it's life, and those blacknose crappie didn't just show up, they had to of been stocked right?

For 2018 I would reduce bass harvest to 6-8 fish and for BG I would harvest mostly females. Crappie harvest those 8"-11" and take the first 2-4 CC that you catch. Spread - split the harvest to prespawn and then again in fall. Be cautious to not fish very often for fun and primarily only for harvest because this will reduce the chances of creating hook smart fish in a such a small pond. In between harvests focus on managing plants and pellet feeding the fish. Injure small fish you catch/trap and use them to hand feed the bass. This can be as much fun as catching them! Experiment with using larger fish traps for removing small crappie.

Thanks for the info, I have my homework cut out for me.

What is my goal with vegetation? Cover for bluegill or creating good ambush spots for bass to feed? I'm sure I can find the answer here somewhere. Thanks for the guidance.

Sounds like you have a great pond now! Perhaps you merely need to continue to monitor it and be careful with the bass population. I am guessing you returned the 4 & 5 lb LMB.

I'm no pro but have found the big LMB hard to catch in a pond with crappie as they have plenty to eat.

Yes, all the LMB over 2 lbs went back. Last year we pulled 8 LMB out that were 12" to stock a neighbors pond he cleaned out in 2016. We have been hitting the BCP pretty consistently for several years in a row.

The LMB I would say are a bit harder to catch than what I have seen in other ponds in the area. But I can't complain with what I have caught in just the last 18 months.

The BG seem to be rampant. I consistently pull out >8" BG, most I don't keep. A relative ,however, about twice a year comes and pulls about a dozen 4" BG for limb line bait. In the summer I see them all over the place. But at the same time, I can throw a jig and consistently catch BCP with the occasional BG bite.

I'll see if I can throw up some pics.

My neighbor has a 1/2 acre pond similar to your scenario. LMB, BG, Crappie of some sort, & CC all live there in a range of sizes up to what I consider trophy fish (6 lb LMB, 1 lb panfish, 5 lb CC. He is not much of a pond manager, but has a great thing going. He tends to stock from the fish truck every year or so, but I think he is just feeding the stockers to the fish he already has. He lets me fish there a few times a year so I keep my opinions to myself and really enjoy the catch rates, sizes, and the harvest.

I am sure the experts, like Bill Cody who replied above, can make your head spin with great advice which also comes with a higher level of dedication. If you do not live and breath pond management (just yet, like me) and you want crappie as a preferred harvest, I would keep an eye the CC and LMB populations that are big enough to eat the larger crappie. Removing the larger predators should relieve the pressure on the larger crappie while leaving the smaller and medium sized predators will help keep the population explosions to a minimum.

I'm not sure what plant management techniques you should be looking at. Usually in small ponds with panfish, I would think to keep the plant life to minimum so that the YOY can't hide so well. Hopefully Bill can revisit that concept for us.

Just my 2 cents, but only worth one.

I thought I would chime in my two cents.

I would be very reluctant to make any dramatic changes (large scale subtractions or additions). I WOULD be trying to study and obtain as much hard data as I could on your pond. Because from what you've shared, it's become the kind of fishery most of us are actively working to create. It has evidently created a balance between forage and predation that is ideal. And maybe you already know your own pond very well, so I'm not suggesting otherwise.

After 3 years of owning and managing mine, I still lack detailed knowledge of my pond's structure and habitat and depth. Where are my fishing spawning, and where do the fry hide? What structure and habitat does my pond have, and how are my fish using it? How does my water quality fair throughout the year? Do I have regular winter kill events? What is the fish class structure like for each species? How are my relative weights?

Sometimes you can drop a handful of change on the counter, and one coin will land on it's edge and stay standing. But it's very easy to knock it over. Sometimes just leaving something as is can be the wisest decision, until you have enough information to potentially improve it.

If you are able to determine what set up conditions are present in your pond, I know that I'd love to try and replicate them.

It's great to have you on the forum! I look forward to following and learning from your story.

p.s. Does Hawkeyeflyboy mean you were an E2C driver?

I would not change much. You have an unusual situation and common suggestions to such could be an error. I would be carful about harvest and would limit it to Bill's suggestions until you have more data.

Comparison of Triploid Hybrid Crappie and Diploid White Crappie in Experimental Ponds
GLENN R. PARSONS

Department of Biology, The University of Mississippi, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

KEITH MEALS

Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks, 310 Shoemaker Hall, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

Abstract.—We crossed female white crappies Pomoxis annularis with male "black-stripe" black crappies P. nigromaculatus to yield hybrids possessing a distinct coloration that may serve as a natural tag when fish are introduced into existing crappie populations. Eggs of these hybrids were cold shocked to produce triploid hybrid crappies. In three spawns, the black stripe was expressed in 100% of hybrids that were not cold shocked and 85% of hybrids that were cold shocked. Coldshocked hybrids were 95% triploid and 5% diploid. Triploid hybrids bearing the black stripe and diploid white crappies without the black stripe were stocked into experimental ponds for growth and survival comparisons. There were inconsistent differences in growth, body condition, and survival of triploid hybrids and diploid white crappies after 1,151 d in ponds, but the gonads of triploid hybrids were consistently smaller than those of diploid white crappies for each sex. No reproduction was observed in ponds with triploid hybrids, whereas reproduction occurred in ponds with diploid white crappies. Although better growth and survival were not consistently observed among triploid hybrids, the lack of reproduction may be an advantage over diploid white crappies in the management of small impoundments.

CJBS
The crappie with the "black stripe" or "black nose" are black crappies native to the White River in Ark. Seeing their unique coloration, they were collected from the wild and raised in hatcheries and then sold, leading to their spread throughout many areas in the south... As the abstract posted by Eric above indicates, these "black nose" crappies have been crossed with white crappies causing some lakes to now have hybrid crappies with this distinct coloration. The "blacknose" crappie is not a scientifically recognized subspecies, just black crappies from a specific drainage(White River) with a unique coloration.

Im definitely taking Bill's advice and pulling back a bit on those harvest tactics for LMB and BG. I'd say this pond was more of an accident than a deliberate plan, that's why I fear it may not last.

Its surrounded by 10 acres of hardwood timber, the creek feeding the pond is runoff from a cattle pasture, and a small portion of crop. Would this perhaps provide more nutrients to the pond than normal? Would this promote higher fertility?

I'm certain it is spring fed, there are springs all over the property. The sides are very steep (old creek channel) and very rocky, many crevices. It grows very little FA around the dam area. There is no other vegetation in the pond actively growing. As for cover, there are a couple large logs about 20 - 25 ft long fully submerged. 3 years ago I sunk a couple bundles of cedar trees, they cover about 20' x 10' in about 10' water depth. Past that, no other cover other than a few large branches that have fallen in over the years. Water clarity is very good now, it clears up in about a week or so after a heavy rain, visibility is normally a few feet (now it's probably >4').

About 25% of the pond is shallow, mud bottom, about 2 - 4' deep, then it drops off into a 8 - 13' deep "bowl". I did a depth survey a couple years ago in a canoe.

I'm not sure what else to tell you about it. I would say 80% of the Crappie I catch are blacknose, the rest are regular BCP. If there's anything specific you would like me to check or measure let me know. I will try to update this thread with 2018 numbers.

And no, I didn't fly in the military, the name came from the company I work for.

Never heard of a blacknose Crappie. Do we need to add a acronym on the forum for the blacknose? I googled some pictures. Pretty neat. I bet some people would want some of them in their pond for a novelty fish. (reward the first kid who can catch a crappie that has a black Mohawk stripe down its snout and chin!)

Do others have black nose crappie? Are they native to more southern waters?

The hardwoods are no doubt dropping plenty of leaves in the pond, which break down on the bottom and contribute to it slowly 'silting in' i.e. eutrophication. If the creek is running through a pretty heavily grassed pasture, the water likely gets plenty of natural nutrient filtering. If there is livestock in there, they may keep the grass pretty short plus contribute 'nutrients' of their own. And depending on the crop, regular additions of fertilizer will definitely find their way into your water. Do you have a feel for how much watershed is feeding your pond? There is a way to calculate how much watershed would be needed to feed/fill your pond. Since you also have a creek feeding it, that would reduce size of watershed needed to keep it at full pool. PLUS, you have springs feeding it. IMO, having multiple sources of water is a really good thing for maintaining water quality. Numerous moderators talk about how important good water quality is to maintaining a fishery (including Bill Cody and Bob Lusk). So maybe that is part of why it does so well. Any feel for the water temps? Are the springs feeding it with cool or cold water? Even without aeration, cold water holds more DO. Maybe you have a natural cooling 'system', protecting the pond from natural turnover events.

Canyon
Seems every other one I catch is that way..... they are beautiful fish to say the least

I have plenty of watershed to maintain such a small pond, my guess is about 45 acres measured via Google Earth. It could be a much larger pond if the dam had been constructed properly. Location was also a poor choice, there is a lot of limestone layers in my area, leaks are unavoidable. But, they built the dam for a driveway to get across the creek so the house could be built. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did it, it's a beautiful piece of ground, but the constant low level of the pond kind of frustrates me.

I don't have much idea on water temps, I never tracked it and if I did, I wouldn't know what's good or not.

We keep talking about nutrients, water quality, etc, but to what end? All of those factors are desirable to lead to what exactly? Good fertility, better spawns? Do the added nutrients help the fish grow healthy?

Or does this pond exist this way because blacknose crappie don't spawn as much as regular? Are my BG "overpopulated" and supporting the appetite of my Crappie and LMB?