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#488287 - 04/07/18 10:03 AM golden shiner
Funky Offline


Registered: 11/07/15
Posts: 47
Loc: Midland, Michigan
Can I get some info on golden shiners and their use in northern ponds?
thanks!!
_________________________
half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing

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#488297 - 04/07/18 01:34 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1897
Loc: West Michigan
Hi Funky,
I'll try to give some general info but you'll have to tell us more specifically what your concerns or questions are.

First they are easy to source (bait shop, bait wholesaler, mail order the fish to you)
2. Easy to transfer and transport if you have your own source as they are pretty hardy
3. They scatter sticky eggs rather than make a nest and vegetation helps to get successive generations to survive
4. They adapt to pellet feeding quickly and grow rapidly with regular pellet feeding
5. Lots of debate on this forum on whether they have harmful aspects. Some find them to beat the panfish to the worms on the angler's hooks when fishing but in my MI pond I have not seen that at all. I find that the YP are very quick to the bait but rarely we do catch a larger shiner.
6. There are a few members who have shiner (several kinds) and YP only ponds and somehow the pond doesn't get that much out of balance. It may be that GSH are somehow controlling the young YP population? There is some discussion on whether GSH eat eggs of other fish but I'm not sure we can prove or disprove that yet.
7. They are a great bait fish for LMB and SMB but in my experience they swim very very fast and if the Bass have the option for YP, FHM, or bluegill I wonder how much time the bass would spend chasing them.

8. I also worry about whether the shiners do any rooting in the bottom of the pond and create turbid water? Someone who has a GSH only pond or a GSH, YP only pond might be able to speak to that.

What else did you have in mind?

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#488298 - 04/07/18 06:22 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
anthropic Online   content


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1526
Loc: East Texas, USA
Funky, I had some GSH stocked in my pond last fall along with the Northern LMB. Shiners are notorious egg eaters, so if BG numbers are an issue, it is advised to stock the shiners only after BG spawn.

Unlike shad, shiners are very cold hardy but need vegetation to spawn.
_________________________
8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

There are only 10 types of people; those who understand binary and those who don't




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#488300 - 04/07/18 06:38 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: canyoncreek]
Funky Offline


Registered: 11/07/15
Posts: 47
Loc: Midland, Michigan
Thanks, i am looking at how to increase the food chain, I found a supplier that has regular BG and will add some this year, and I want to add YP, but it seems I can not keep FHM,s they just disappear! So I think I need more in the food chain, and my thinking is the more the better at this point aqs the pond and the fish are now three years old.
_________________________
half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing

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#488301 - 04/07/18 07:59 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
Shorty Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4239
Loc: Raymond, NE
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#488303 - 04/07/18 08:21 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Shorty]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5676
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Shorty


...I've got some northern LMB in my pond that would love to meet this one!

Too add a little to CC's list

Pro

I recently read GSH eat filamentous algae (FA)

Con

A lot of commercially available GSH may have an ovarian parasite that will prevent them from reproducing after year 2 or 3


Edited by Bill D. (04/07/18 08:44 PM)
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#488305 - 04/07/18 08:47 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
John Monroe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 1105
Loc: East Central Indiana
Everyday when I step on my pond deck the Golden Shiners come by the hundreds to be fed. Yesterday and today there were none. I would guess this means that are spawning. I feed my shiners day old bread I get at Walmart. They love it.
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#488309 - 04/07/18 09:50 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1897
Loc: West Michigan
Funky,
What is in your pond and what are your goals? If you have no BG or HBG in there now I would not necessarily just throw some in. Do you have predators already? Are you predator heavy?

If you don't have predators then GSH can be a good forage fish to work on before mixing in BG.

FHM didn't last long in my pond and I have zero predators, but I do have a few RES and LES and quite a few YP and they clean up the FHM in a matter of a few weeks after stocking.

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#488312 - 04/07/18 11:34 PM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5282
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Funky
Can I get some info on golden shiners and their use in northern ponds?
thanks!!


First a disclaimer. I don't have a northern pond. I'm right in the middle so my observations might not apply. Also the thing I am most sure about GS is that I dont know much about them.

Having said that, I do have some observations.

I have a very high population of GS in my 1/20th acre forage pond. I put a dozen in there a couple years ago from a bait shop and they have went bonkers. They are thick with very small ones all the way to about 6.5". I have been catching the larger ones with a cast net and transferring them to my sediment pond and main pond. At the same time I put the dozen to stock this pond I put a dozen in my main 3 acre pond. In my main pond they have not really multiplied to any great degree. I did catch one once in a while and since I have transferred many from my forage pond to the main pond to try and get a stable population going. My main pond has LMB and to date there are only minimal GS in that pond. So absent predators they have multiplied tremendously in my forage pond but in my main pond with predators they are insignificant.

A couple other observations in my forage pond.

I also have RES for the purpose of raising RES fingerlings. Even though the GS are thick in this pond I took out several hundred 3" RES fingerlings from this 1/20th acre pond and still get some when I throw a cast net. So when I hear that GS are egg eaters, that has not been the case in my forage pond. Or if it is the case it was a good thing because I don't know how the pond could stand any more RES fingerlings because there are still a ton of them in there. So I guess I am not afraid of them eating RES eggs at least.

I have noticed the GS are chow hounds and cold water tolerant. They do like fish feed pellets and in fact they will be actively eating a few degrees colder temperature than what my BG in my main pond will. I hand feed daily so I notice these things.

I have FA, sometimes bad, in my main pond and sediment pond which are both right next to this forage pond with all the GS. The forage pond is very fertile and perhaps the algae bloom keeps the FA at bay but I have essentially no FA in this pond. I did not really think too much about that until I found out that GS are algae eaters. So are they the reason I have no FA in my forage pond? Or is it the algae bloom that keeps it down? Early in the year the water is clear before the bloom starts with FA in my other ponds but none in my forage pond. So I suspect the thick population of GS are keeping the FA down in this pond.

Those are my anecdotal observations. I know little about GS but those are my observations.


Edited by snrub (04/07/18 11:42 PM)
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#488318 - 04/08/18 07:55 AM Re: golden shiner [Re: Funky]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4251
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I will be curious how the GSH/YP/LCS balance out in my SMB pond. I have had good reproduction of all but the SMB where I am uncertain of a successful spawn. I also have RES and FHM in the pond, and added papershell crawdads a few years back as well. Plenty of plant cover in the pond too (lily pads and curly-leaf pondweed). I fished a few minutes last summer with a hard bait and caught one GSH and a very healthy SMB that was larger than I thought possible based on when I put them in and their initial size. I don't fish with live bait so am not concerned about GSH stealing bait (but my neighbor may be). Based on the YP and LCS reproduction, I am guessing that GSH eating eggs may not be that big a problem either, although SMB have different spawning habits and post spawn fry-care behavior. Still too early to evaluate how things will shake out for most species, but right now, the SMB are well fed. The LCS that I rescued below the outflow tube looked fat too.


Edited by RAH (04/08/18 07:55 AM)

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#488319 - 04/08/18 08:17 AM Re: golden shiner [Re: canyoncreek]
Funky Offline


Registered: 11/07/15
Posts: 47
Loc: Midland, Michigan
To answer a few questions: my pond is three years old, about a half acre, and was planted with 25 CC, 25 LMB and about 200 HBG, not sure how many FHM I have put in but am sure there is little to none now. Looking at increasing the feed for the pond as a whole. Regular BG will at least offer some increase and the wife wants some YP. I have no plans to add any LMB at this time or at least not until I see how well they are doing this year and the food available. We feed twice daily in the summer. i know from last summer that our CC are running around 20 inches as we have been catch and release. This year we may harvest but will wait to see how the numbers are. We are looking for a fun place to fish, having the grandkids over to fish and just have fun.


Edited by Funky (04/08/18 10:38 AM)
_________________________
half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing

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