Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Where have all the BG gone, long time passing...

Last year I had huge number of BG, mostly large, come to the feeders. Occasionally a bass would show up, but BG outnumbered them 50 to 1.

This year is almost the reverse. Lots of bass, few BG. Should I be alarmed?

Possibly relevant facts:

Four feeders on main lake.

Placed 19 tons of lime in lake last fall to bring up alkalinity & hardness.

Relatively clear, infertile water. Visibility usually around 3.5 to 4 feet.

Last year's fall electro survey showed many larger BG had fungus. Nobody seemed to know why or make suggestions as to what caused the issue and how it could be cured.

I now have six cormorants, last year only a couple.

Last fall stocked 100 1.25 - 2 lb northern feed trained bass. We'd seen that only a few original stocked LSL grew beyond 10 inches, so needed to get past the forage bottleneck. The NLMB are doing well, every one is fat, and we did catch a 20 inch LSL bass of around 4 lb last week as well.

Questions: 1) Do we have a shortage of BG? 2) If so, what can be done? I do have a 1/8 acre forage pond with CNBG in it which can be used to restock, but not sure that will be enough. 3) Would TP help by taking bass pressure off BG, or hurt by eating algae sanctuaries for yoy BG?

Your suggestions, thoughts, comments are welcome! Also, if you have a BOW around my area, around Marshall Tx, what are your BG doing?

Is your water warm enough that your BG are spawning now? Can you typically see the BG on the nest in your spawning areas?

Frank, What a really nice lake you have! I was impressed to say the least. For others here, I made a trip to Franks place but did not really get a chance to do anything other than a short visit due to severe thunderstorms. I saw six cormorants that did not want to leave the lake and would fly only a short distance when they saw us. Also saw some nice Canadian Geese on the lake and for me personally, on a lake that size, I would not be too concerned with the geese at this time, but the cormorants would have to go. Frank, each bird will eat around two pounds of fish a day and if they have been there for awhile they eat a lot of fish. That is why Texas used to let property owners remove them. But today, now controlled by the Feds are less likely to issue permits. I once had around 85 setting on the pond one morning and after getting them to leave there were some large cnbg dead and floating, along with about 150 3" TFS and a couple of HSB. What they don't eat they kill! Another concern was the health issue u saw. I am not an expert but since u do have some cnbg in the pond, I would think not all of the cnbg were effected and that is why you are seeing some around the feeders. My cnbg are active now. They were slow around 4 weeks ago but active now. One more thing is with the Legacy lmb and the northern lmb, I would think they are also feeding on the smaller cnbg and that may also be why u r not seeing as many cnbg. Its also been awhile sine the last spawn, so I would expect to see fewer small ones right now. Oh ! They can and will eat two pound bass and that is a fact!

I don't think it would hurt anything to add your cnbg to the big pond now, IF YOU REMOVE THE DARN BIRDS! Best wishies Frank.

I think the cormorants hunt in groups also. You can see them in a group all dive at the same time in the same area. I wonder if they don't herd the fish together so they can get them easier.

Are you sure you don't have otters? I thought I didn't have otters, but they are very sneaky, and apparently nocturnal in my case.

I think the water turkeys are your problem!

If the water turkeys were to get snagged on some treble hooks, well, that's technically an accident.

Haven't seen floating dead fish, much less half eaten ones. From what I've heard of otters, that is their calling card as they enjoy killing for sport.

Also, the larger NLMB seem to be flourishing & abundant, just the BG are missing in action. Maybe cormorants can't handle the bigger LMB, but likely they can handle just about all the BG. (If someone knows more about the fish size cormorants can eat, please inform me.)

The now seven Geese don't bother me too much, though I hate seeing them making their way to the feeder when it goes off. They love fish food, and it is expensive feeding them rather than the fish! Time to addle their eggs on the island.

I got some holographic tape and scare eye balloons which I'll have to put up & see if they help with cormorants.

So far as I can tell, no BG on beds yet. However, I'll check again in a couple of days to see if this has changed. Water cooler than at same time last year. BG in my forage pond are eating ravenously, but it warms up much faster than main lake. Also, visibility is only about a foot, so birds have a much harder time fishing there!

Sounds like your bass might be eating your BG also. Saw a cormorant eat a 6-8” crappie so I know they can eat! What size are your LMB?

Pat, my Northern LMB are mostly 12 to 15 inches. Biggest LSL LMB I've seen was 20 inches, but that size is rare.

If the cormorants focused on small stunted bass, they'd be doing me a favor. However, I suspect they are eating my BG...

I thought you might have some jumbo lmb in there. Probably a combination of cormorants and stunted bass eating your recruitments up

Years ago, during the annual Shreveport Boat Show (back in the 90's), there would be venders of all things related to fishing and boating. During the event there was a booth there signing up people who wanted to reduce the numbers of cormorants on the lakes in Texas and Louisiana. They were trying to get a petition to wright a bill to where they could reduce numbers of the darn birds on public waters. In there presentation they had a video of Cormorants eating two pound bass. They would then show the stomach contents of the Cormorants having some nice sized lmb removed from the darn birds. Influencing lmb fisherman to sign up. If pond owners saw the video there would be less cormorants around.

They have excellent eyesight so you can’t sneak up on them....all long range

Pat, I agree, something with long range sighting works.

I suppose if your pond is isolated enough from view and sound you could do something about the water turkeys and keep it low profile.

I had otters, and couldn't do anything because the previous owner had sold off 13 lots (7 out of 20 acres) along the edges of the place and they all have homes on them. Apparently otters are not very shy of populated areas.

Wishing sometimes I had found a more isolated place, but kind of committed to this one now.

Cci makes a .22 CB cap that is accurate close an no louder than a pellet gun

I'll try scaring them the best I can. Maybe when they see me whipping the water with my clumsy flycasting they'll realize it isn't safe to be on the pond!

I have an alternate to fly casting that has worked well for me. Get a light/ultralight 12 to 16 foot Mr Crappie pole or similar with a small simple reel, and 4-6 pound test line. Simply swing the fly/tiny jig/or small popping bug out with the rod. Works well for me. Not flailing the water or getting hung up behind or overhead. It's a great BG catcher. Yesterday I hooked a fat 12 inch LMB, and that was a tussle.

John, are you talking like cane pole fishing, only with an artificial?

Kind of like that, only it's a light, limber graphite pole with guides and a single action reel, like a simple fly reel, only smaller.

John F came up to my place for a visit one day a couple years ago and brought his Mr Crappie rod with him. We did some fishing and he caught a lot of BG with it and his Gulp Alive chartreuse waxie bait.

I always liked the way he did it and found I was doing a fair amount of the same thing with my regular short light weight spincast rod. So when my wife wanted to know what I wanted for my birthday we went and got me a Mr Crappie rod. So John F has been an influence on me. Oh, and I also use a lot of Gulp Alive waxies.

My Mr Crappie rod is only a 10 ft model and it has a very small spin cast reel instead of the single reel like his. I do cast some times (it casts pretty well, even with a 1/64 oz jig because the rod is so long and line light) but also do a lot of what he does, simply using it like a long cane pole and swinging the bait out from the bank or dock and sweeping it across and back in towards shore.

It works really well.

That sounds a lot like a tenkara rod, which I have always wanted to try. It's like a fly rod with no reel.

Pat, I buy 22 cal shorts by Aguila called colibris. Just a primer and no powder. They are quiet enough for me to shoot in town. I buy them by the case(10 boxes of 50 each) for tree rats and to try to correct a flinch that I have developed. Academy and Cabelas carries them. They are not as accurate as those with powder. I have shot about 2,000 rounds during the past year. Even without powder, I still have to clean the barrel fairly regularly. They do a good job on squirrels.

I didn't know about the CCI ones.

I think this is the rod and the reel but in the store they had the combo with them sold together. It is nothing high end but it seems to work well. It is quite different than my regular spin casting rod and reel though in that the rod is extremely flexible and light weight. In the reviews the rod only got two stars because both reviewers broke them. I would say that would be very easy to do if a person was not paying attention when landing a fish or snagged. I have to be careful lifting even a 3/4 pound BG out of the water and support the rod correctly or I think it would break easily. I think a person has to handle it more like a fly fishing rod.

MR Crappie rod

Mr Crappie spin cast reel

I have been using it with a 1/64 oz jig tied directly to the line and either casting it or swinging it out like John F describes. The one problem I have noticed it with such light mono line and such light bait the line does not pull tight enough to wrap correctly on the reel. It will try to wrap around the cover behind the spool instead of correctly in the spool. So I have to use one hand ahead of the reel and keep some tension on the line when reeling it in (no problem when a fish is on and there is tension). It would not be a problem with a heavier bait but the reason I bought it was to use for BG with very small jigs. I may at some point string it with light weight braided line. I use braided on my regular spin casting rod and it is much more flexible than the mono. I think it would wind on the spool easier without having to add tension to the line. But I have been having fun with it.

John F has landed some big CC with his. It is just not something you would want to hand an inexperienced kid because they could break it in a heartbeat with a big fish on. Its action is more like a fly rod action but with regular line rather than fly rod casting line.

I'm no angler so what I say may not even make sense. The only fishing I do is at my ponds but I do a fair amount of BG fishing there. Caught a few last night, although the bite was slow after the cold front arrived. Brrrrrr.

Here's one of the rods and reels. This rod is a 14' 3-piece.

I have landed a six pound CC on these rods, but they have limits. A neighbor has BG, LMB, and blue catfish up to 25 pounds in one pond. I had a six inch BG hit on my tiny jig, when my rod suddenly started bending almost double, and the makeshift drag started screaming. I think one of the big BC had hit the BG. It would have taken all the line if it hadn't let go. The BG was kind of beat up after I reeled it in.