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#488049 - 04/01/18 07:53 PM Soilfloc Observations
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 38
Loc: Kansas (KS)
After a diy pond leak fix I just finished up, I want to finally apply the 4 units of soilfloc that I've stored for 2 years. My hope is that after the bentonite and clay fix I applied, the soilfloc will seal any weaknesses in my patch or elsewhere.

So today the weather was too cold for outdoor activities so I took samples of soilfloc and tested them out. I used plastic bottles filled with a couple inches of gravel and 5 holes drilled in the bottom. The soilfloc performed well mixed in and only took probably 1 tsp to clog the bottle of either part A or B but took a while to absorb enough water to do so. It worked extremely well with suspended clay mixed with 1 tsp part A and 1 tsp part B. Sealed fast and settled all the clay to the bottom quickly.

In another test I found it interesting that part A floculated the water very quickly while B did not appear to have any affect on the water clarity. Made me question its role in the mix. Directions state to apply part A and then B. I think part B should go first followed by A or mixed. If part A goes in and much time goes by then it drops to the bottom as it collects suspended clay and leaving part B behind to float around the pond. Without murky water, neither part settles to the bottom unless pulled by a drain. Suspended clay is the key to settling over a leak. I believe parts A and B are attracted to eachother as well. Adding bentonite to the water might help build up a bentonite layer too I'd think. My plan is to mix them together and broadcast by hand while the pond is at 1/4 full. I can hit my problem spots as the pond fills. I might add bentonite too but my pond is never clear.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody mixed theirs while applying or know why the brochure states to apply them separately.

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#488050 - 04/01/18 08:28 PM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: Archer82]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1738
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
It didn't work very well for me because the clay in my pond is a type that doesn't suspend.
_________________________

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#488051 - 04/01/18 09:12 PM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 38
Loc: Kansas (KS)
Maybe powdered bentonite would cling to it and drop the suspended soilfloc. It might still be in the water. Won't swell into cracks anymore but might blanket a leak. Wonder how long it will float around in the water...

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#488053 - 04/01/18 10:51 PM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: Archer82]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1738
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Archer82
Maybe powdered bentonite would cling to it and drop the suspended soilfloc. It might still be in the water. Won't swell into cracks anymore but might blanket a leak. Wonder how long it will float around in the water...


I tried that method to help it sink, part A, part B, then powdered Bentonite. Then I went back over the whole area with powdered Bentonite. The part that sank appeared to have lots of clumping with the Bentonite. It seemed to help my leak for maybe a couple of weeks, and as time has passed (two years), the leak became a little worse, but has stabilized in the past year. YMMV.
_________________________

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#488055 - 04/02/18 02:37 AM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: John Fitzgerald]
teehjaeh57 Online   content
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7777
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
It didn't work very well for me because the clay in my pond is a type that doesn't suspend.


Whether a pond has excessive suspended clay particles has no bearing on the efficacy of the polymer. You used fraction of a unit, IIRC - and multiple treatments are sometimes necessary.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#488057 - 04/02/18 02:41 AM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: Archer82]
teehjaeh57 Online   content
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7777
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: Archer82
After a diy pond leak fix I just finished up, I want to finally apply the 4 units of soilfloc that I've stored for 2 years. My hope is that after the bentonite and clay fix I applied, the soilfloc will seal any weaknesses in my patch or elsewhere.

So today the weather was too cold for outdoor activities so I took samples of soilfloc and tested them out. I used plastic bottles filled with a couple inches of gravel and 5 holes drilled in the bottom. The soilfloc performed well mixed in and only took probably 1 tsp to clog the bottle of either part A or B but took a while to absorb enough water to do so. It worked extremely well with suspended clay mixed with 1 tsp part A and 1 tsp part B. Sealed fast and settled all the clay to the bottom quickly.

In another test I found it interesting that part A floculated the water very quickly while B did not appear to have any affect on the water clarity. Made me question its role in the mix. Directions state to apply part A and then B. I think part B should go first followed by A or mixed. If part A goes in and much time goes by then it drops to the bottom as it collects suspended clay and leaving part B behind to float around the pond. Without murky water, neither part settles to the bottom unless pulled by a drain. Suspended clay is the key to settling over a leak. I believe parts A and B are attracted to eachother as well. Adding bentonite to the water might help build up a bentonite layer too I'd think. My plan is to mix them together and broadcast by hand while the pond is at 1/4 full. I can hit my problem spots as the pond fills. I might add bentonite too but my pond is never clear.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody mixed theirs while applying or know why the brochure states to apply them separately.


Hi Brad

Good to hear from you, been a long time. Per the summary I provide, the linear polymer [A] is designed to work as a flocculant, bind with suspended clay particles, and sink. The crosslink polymer [B] is designed to be carried by the current of the leak into the fissure where it expands and slows, and hopefully seals that leak. Two different polymers, two different functions.

Bentonite serves no purpose for sealing a hydrated pond - it can be used to help sink any polymer that is floating, however - per our original discussion. Feel free to reach out anytime and I'm happy to review and help coordinate your application strategy. Want to make sure we get it right.

_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#488062 - 04/02/18 09:28 AM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: Archer82]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1709
Loc: West Michigan
Brad,
I took a small hand held grass seed whirlybird spreader and measured 1 measuring cup of A, put in hopper, then 1 cup B, then A, then B till hopper was full. Then spread the full hopper, then repeated. So as the cup of A and B set on top of each other in the hopper I"m sure there was a little mixing and as the whirlybird agitator mixed. The two powders are different consistency and density so the fine powder probably easily mixes with the more course as it goes out the hopper. I found the floculent sinks fast and grabs particles on the way down, the polymer absorbs water and gets goo-ey and slippery and sinks more slowly. Slow leaks pull the product in slower so perhaps what worked best for me was to do repeat applications. Remember it is best to apply when you are at full pool as it gives the most downward hydraulic pressure.

I only wish I could have cleared the bottom of the pond of the thick layer of leaves prior to doing it as I think it would have worked much better. But clearly the 2 or 3 layers in the shallows has worked to stabilize the silt and hopefully slow the leaks.


Edited by canyoncreek (04/02/18 09:28 AM)

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#488067 - 04/02/18 10:30 AM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: teehjaeh57]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1738
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
It didn't work very well for me because the clay in my pond is a type that doesn't suspend.


Whether a pond has excessive suspended clay particles has no bearing on the efficacy of the polymer. You used fraction of a unit, IIRC - and multiple treatments are sometimes necessary.


I used a half unit. Over time, I have found that my leakage is confined to a narrow band of dirt where the dam and excavated portion join, about 18 inches wide and 210 feet long, about 315 square feet. That's exactly where I treated, and a half unit on that was overtreatment. The AquaBen rep advised me to throw Bentonite on top to help it sink, since I don't have suspended clay in the pond. The pond stops leaking when it gets below that band, and I have dug into that band on the back side of the dam to verify. I think we may dig a cut off trench into the back side of the dam when it dries up in late summer if we have the funds.
_________________________

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#488073 - 04/02/18 12:21 PM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: teehjaeh57]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 38
Loc: Kansas (KS)

Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57


Hi Brad

Good to hear from you, been a long time. Per the summary I provide, the linear polymer [A] is designed to work as a flocculant, bind with suspended clay particles, and sink. The crosslink polymer [B] is designed to be carried by the current of the leak into the fissure where it expands and slows, and hopefully seals that leak. Two different polymers, two different functions.

Bentonite serves no purpose for sealing a hydrated pond - it can be used to help sink any polymer that is floating, however - per our original discussion. Feel free to reach out anytime and I'm happy to review and help coordinate your application strategy. Want to make sure we get it right.



I don't see how part B can find it's way to a leak source several feet under water unless it's carried there. Don't see enough negative pressure generated unless you are trying to clog a hole. Plus if part A blankets the bottom then how will part B make it to the leak? That's why I feel part B needs to bind to part A so it can be carried to the leak. Without clay suspended in the water, I'd think the polymers would float around in the water and never sink.

My pond seeps through a rock shelf that I have added 1000 lbs of bentonite and clay over then ran my disc over it. Then packed the layers with my tractor tires. Made 3 layers of bentonite and clay over my leak. It may be sealed now for all I know.



Edited by Archer82 (04/02/18 12:23 PM)

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#488087 - 04/02/18 06:41 PM Re: Soilfloc Observations [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 38
Loc: Kansas (KS)
I did more testing tonight to get a better look at how quickly the soilfloc settles without binding to clay. Had to color the water to see and observed it does fall on its own but much still floats on top. So that confirms you don't necessarily require clay particles to drop to the pond floor but it does drop much faster with clay weighing it down. After 30 min I still have a good portion floating on top or just below the surface.

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