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#487189 - 03/14/18 10:47 AM Ladder stock HSB?
DRG Offline


Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas
I have a 3/4 acre 10' deep (avg 6') pond by lake Conroe Tx. In Dec i put 250 CNBG 100 RES and 10 lbs of FHM in the pond. I would like to Ladder stock some HSB but am not sure when to do it? How long between ladder stocks? and how many fish each time? Any suggestions? I am feeding the cargill triton pellets daily.

Thank you

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#487193 - 03/14/18 11:14 AM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
beastman Offline


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
What were the size of the CNBG and RES?
Are you trying to control the CNBG with HSB alone or do you plan to add other predators?
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3/4 Acre Pond: HSB,SMB,YP,HBG,RES

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#487194 - 03/14/18 11:30 AM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: beastman]
DRG Offline


Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas
i put the CNBG and RES in at 2-3 inches in Dec and It appears they are all over 3" right now but I have not caught any to measure for sure, but they look quite a bit bigger than when I put them in. My goal is to use HSB as the sole predator, I dont want to overpopulate reproducing LMB. I am new to this so trying to pick up on others experience. with the 10:1 ratio I am looking at 35 HSB but not 100% sure on this number and timing!!!

Thank you


Edited by DRG (03/14/18 11:32 AM)

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#487195 - 03/14/18 11:36 AM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 336
Loc: Iowa
What are the overall goals for the pond?
_________________________
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#487196 - 03/14/18 11:45 AM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: Matzilla]
DRG Offline


Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas
My overall goal is A sunfish pond for my kids and I to catch fish. I would like to get some pigger pan fish but enough fish there is some action for my girls. It would be fun to see the girls hook a HSB when expecting a CNBG!!!

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#487198 - 03/14/18 11:52 AM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
beastman Offline


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I would have gone with the HBG ( hybrid blue gill ) if you were only going to stock HSB as the sole predator. I think you will need to introduce another predator eventually to control the CNBG.

For 3/4 acre I think qty 40-50 is fine. Depending on the size of the HSB Fall would be fine to stock. If you want to add now I would go smaller 3-6" size , their mouth gap is not like a LMB so will not prey on the new stocked CNBG.

Given your water temperatures and catch rates you could go higher on the HSB stocked as you will have some that don't survive being hooked in the Summer etc...

Congrats on the new pond and fish, you will surely enjoy !


Edited by beastman (03/14/18 11:57 AM)
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3/4 Acre Pond: HSB,SMB,YP,HBG,RES

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#487200 - 03/14/18 12:46 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 775
Loc: Paris, TX
On HSB at what size is best to switch from catch and release, to catch, fry , and restock?
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1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#487203 - 03/14/18 01:25 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 336
Loc: Iowa
Any size really...its a put and take fish. Your only concern would be the impact of removing the predator if it is controlling a specific size prey.

DRG you could supplement with Walleye and smallmouth bass as well. Just some options to think about.
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Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#487204 - 03/14/18 01:42 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 775
Loc: Paris, TX
Mine are just a bonus fish, and about the 2-3# range. I was thinking It might be better to start keeping and replacing as caught. Then replace what was kept the previous year in the spring. I stocked 50 10-12" in my pond last spring. My thought was 50 of the HSB in 3-6# range may be getting preditor heavy in that size with the LMB. Nice to have a few, but wouldn't want too many big ones?


Edited by BrianL (03/14/18 01:42 PM)
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#487205 - 03/14/18 01:51 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6962
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Talk with Todd at Overton Fisheries. With already having CNBG that will be spawning, you can add about 100-125 HSB, and will probably want to add 5-10 same sex LMB soon too. The HSB will not be able to keep up with the CNBG, especially since feeding pellets.

You may eventually need to add some Golden Shiners as a forage for the HSB if the CNBG become too large for the HSB to consume.


Edited by Rainman (03/14/18 01:51 PM)
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#487206 - 03/14/18 02:09 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: BrianL]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 336
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: BrianL
Mine are just a bonus fish, and about the 2-3# range. I was thinking It might be better to start keeping and replacing as caught. Then replace what was kept the previous year in the spring. I stocked 50 10-12" in my pond last spring. My thought was 50 of the HSB in 3-6# range may be getting preditor heavy in that size with the LMB. Nice to have a few, but wouldn't want too many big ones?


do your HSB eat pellets? The competition might be minimal since hsb will lean toward open water feeding while lmb want to ambush based off structure and cover. HSB/LMB shouldn't be running into each other too often but there are areas where they'll overlap while feeding. HSB are great table fare and I'm looking forward to catching and consuming mine as they get larger.
_________________________
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

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#487207 - 03/14/18 02:29 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: DRG]
beastman Offline


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I remember an old message Bruce Condello responded to when talking about HSB....

Talk about a crazy pond while it lasted....
Maybe he could talk about it some tonight on the live feed?

From Bruce Condello:

"I’ve accomplished something that’s rarely been done, or even attempted for that matter. I stocked and managed a pond that had 2,500 pounds of HSB per acre!!! My pond was the envy of every pondmeister in the Midwest. Maybe one of the best fishing ponds ever. A one-acre pond with an average depth of 7 ft. and a maximum depth of 16 feet. Clear water, teeming with wipers. Everything you threw in the water was viciously attacked! We’d throw topwaters without hooks just to watch the frenzy. I’d invite friends for evenings of flyrodding, beer and constant action. On a good day I could feed an entire 50-lb. bag of Silver Cup steelhead chow in 15 minutes. I pushed the envelope as far as it would go. I ignored recommendations just to see what I could do. And it worked…for almost two years………….and then the crash………

I was at my pond to refill the feeders. When I came over the hill it was a windy, warm late June afternoon. I noticed that the waves were leaving white foam on the windward side. Odd, I thought, that so much foam was accumulating. Hmmm, I’ll just go grab a bag of feed, but wait a minute, that’s not foam, its dead fish! Hundreds of them, 450 of them to be exact. Deader than dead. From four pounds all the way up to 16 pounds. Enough to bring tears to a grown man’s eyes. The clean up took an entire week with rubbers gloves, a John Deere Gator, and a shovel to dig holes for the gruesome remains of my beloved fish. Is there a lesson here? Not really. I knew it could happen. I actually expected it to happen. It was fun while it lasted.

I’ve since stocked the same pond with 50 fish instead of 500. The growth rates are excellent and they’re still a blast to watch feed. I also have several hundred big bluegills that like the feed too. I’m having just as much fun and I don’t have to keep as much beer on hand. I think I’ll ultimately need fewer therapy sessions.

Back to your question. 100 pounds of HSB per acre is a manageable number. That's 75 pounds for you. You can easily start with 150 smaller fish but you have to be prepared to harvest as the total biomass starts to exceed 75 pounds. If you stock this many HSB your bluegill will be intimidated and won’t utilize the feed as much. You may have to get creative and find ways to get the pellets to your panfish as well. A summertime water profile analysis would be helpful. Aeration IS NOT an absolute necessity if your water quality is good and you have some oxygen present in the deeper cooler layers. A thermocline allows HSB to hang out a little deeper on a hot summer day in a low stress environment. I wouldn’t feed them at all when the mean daily air temperature exceeds 82 degrees F. Some people will buy a device which runs the aerator only at night to prevent mixing hot surface water with cooler, deeper water. Ideally you would find a way to evaluate dissolved oxygen throughout the water column on hot days so you could determine how to make best use of an aerator.

Since you don’t currently have predators in your pond you should stock based on water temperature. Don’t buy, handle, or stock HSB when water temperatures are below 50. Your fish will get a nasty green fungus on their fins and may die. Really 60-65 is optimal stocking temp. HSB can be purchased at a pretty reasonable cost for 4-inchers. Maybe 75 cents to 1.25/each. HSB are often collected by growers by size, meaning that the faster growing, more aggressive, better converting fish are collected first. The primary reason for this is that the growers want to sell these fish first. They have a name for these bigger, faster growers. It’s “cannibal”. See if you can get these. A four-inch HSB will not eat another HSB of similar size but it will attempt to eat a two-incher. The two-inchers have a name. It’s “lunch”.

If your pond is bowl shaped and if you don’t have a lot of macrophytes (rooted vegetation), your HSB may do a fair job of controlling bluegill, but don’t depend on it. HSB will always retain a little of their piscivorous nature, but they will always take the pellets first and foremost. This is called optimal foraging theory. Least energy expended for energy gain. Bluegills are a nice morsel, but they represent a little too much work for your HSB.

Remember, you can have as many HSB as you want, but the percent chance of sudden, cataclysmic failure starts to nudge upwards with the number of fish present. "
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3/4 Acre Pond: HSB,SMB,YP,HBG,RES

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#487210 - 03/14/18 03:10 PM Re: Ladder stock HSB? [Re: beastman]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 775
Loc: Paris, TX
Originally Posted By: beastman

Back to your question. 100 pounds of HSB per acre is a manageable number. If you stock this many HSB your bluegill will be intimidated and won’t utilize the feed as much. You may have to get creative and find ways to get the pellets to your panfish as well. A summertime water profile analysis would be helpful. Aeration IS NOT an absolute necessity if your water quality is good and you have some oxygen present in the deeper cooler layers. A thermocline allows HSB to hang out a little deeper on a hot summer day in a low stress environment. I wouldn’t feed them at all when the mean daily air temperature exceeds 82 degrees F. Some people will buy a device which runs the aerator only at night to prevent mixing hot surface water with cooler, deeper water. Ideally you would find a way to evaluate dissolved oxygen throughout the water column on hot days so you could determine how to make best use of an aerator.


That is what I was looking for. Thanks! I can figure out what I need to do based off of those numbers.


Edited by BrianL (03/14/18 03:12 PM)
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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