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sprkplug #454873 08/26/16 06:41 PM
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I'm no expert here...but, my guess is RES x GSF


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stickem' #454874 08/26/16 08:51 PM
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That is certainly a possibility in that pond and I have been hoping to get some of that cross.


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sprkplug #454875 08/26/16 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'm no expert, but I would classify that fish as a GSF dominant HBG. BG x GSF


That is what most of my natural hybrids are and a good chance you are right. This one had a lot more colorful speckles. When I first saw it I thouht Pumkinseed cross, but that would be impossible unless some northern fish flew south for the winter and stayed. grin


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stickem' #455743 09/11/16 02:21 PM
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Here is another that I think could potentially a RESxGSF cross.

Something about the yellowish mottled appearance on the cheeks (combined with the obvious GSF green bars) made me think RES cross. Doesn't show well in the picture but the border on the opercular tab has the translucent GSF look but looking at it in person I thought it has some RES appearance also. Also the way the mouth protrudes so far in front of the eye.

Dunnow. Looked inside its mouth looking for crusher teeth and still not sure what I am looking for. Appears to be 4 molar appearing bumps on the roof of its mouth but I see that in BG also. These looked like they might have been slightly larger. Wish I knew more about that. Have never been able to find pictures on the web or been around anyone who could show me what to look for.

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Last edited by snrub; 09/11/16 02:25 PM.

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snrub #455746 09/11/16 02:45 PM
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Some nice (relative term) GSF caught in the last few days. I would like to see one of them get to 1.5#.

One looks like it was damaged by a GBH strike at an early age. Damaged the top fin area. I would have culled it but it is the largest one I have caught to date. Thought at least if I caught it again it would be an easy one to identify.

A couple were from my main pond which would have been some fingerlings I transferred there from my sediment pond. The rest are from my old pond.

Am catching about 50-50 GSF vs BG from my old pond. Some days 60-40, some days the opposite. Just depends on the day.

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Last edited by snrub; 09/11/16 02:51 PM.

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snrub #455758 09/11/16 08:28 PM
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Those are some nice fish! I caught some longer fish today, but none had that much depth to their bodies. How much are you feeding? Mine should have plenty of tilapia and young bluegill to eat, but I'm not seeing any evidence of that... Maybe I should wait until right after the fall tilapia kill to catch any fat ones?

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I'm feeding 2-3# per acre in my main pond daily and maybe half that sporadically in my old pond.

The GSF really take to the feed.


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snrub #455770 09/11/16 09:51 PM
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Snrub, man, you have some of the healthiest looking fish I have ever seen in any BOW!! Hats off to you!!


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Thanks. They have grown really well the first three years but I think they are leveling off. Either that or I just can not catch many of the original stockers to get a handle of how they have done.

I think I am getting heavy forage and light predators and with too many mouths to feed the BG growth is suffering. I'm afraid I will end up with a trophy bass pond when I was shooting for a pan fish pond.

Some probably would not consider that a problem. grin


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snrub #455857 09/13/16 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: snrub
Thanks. They have grown really well the first three years but I think they are leveling off. Either that or I just can not catch many of the original stockers to get a handle of how they have done.

I think I am getting heavy forage and light predators and with too many mouths to feed the BG growth is suffering. I'm afraid I will end up with a trophy bass pond when I was shooting for a pan fish pond.

Some probably would not consider that a problem. grin


It's all about mouths to feed. If you want a trophy panfish pond, then you have to reduce the quantity of small panfish mouths. 125-150 LMB per acre no larger then 14" will accomplish that for you.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #455983 09/15/16 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the advice.

Working on it. Now if Dunn's will just put out their fall delivery schedule my sediment pond has a date with 50 new LMB fingerlings.


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snrub #456082 09/17/16 09:07 AM
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One from last night out of the main pond. This would have likely been a fingerling that came from my sediment pond that I transferred over. I can not be certain it is a pure GSF but it looks to be mostly so. About 8".

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snrub #456169 09/18/16 08:28 PM
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Nice fish


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Here is another one from last night. How big you recon I can get these to grow? They do like their feed.

This one is from the main pond. I probably catch 30 or more BG to one of these GSF. If I fish really near shore sometimes can catch a small GSF, but mostly BG. Once in a while one of my CNBG.

Just had a thought. Maybe I am catching the same one over and over. laugh

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snrub #456277 09/20/16 06:10 PM
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Caught one similar in size the other night. You think you've got a monster on when they get about 6-7" and up. The pic is not that good but will try to get it uploaded. I'm wondering the same thing...if the would get taller like a BG or BCP they would probably make some really nice fillets!


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Here is pic...its terrible i know...it was just dark...no tape...all I had was a squaty Ozarka bottle. lol. It was a chunky little guy!


Measured a bottle wallago, right at 5" tall and 2 3/8" in diameter.


[img:left][/img]


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Nice one!

They will not get tall like a BG, but they get thick. If you look at the width of them compared to BG they are much wider. They are really shaped more like a LMB than a BG.


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Isn't it true that the GSF spawn once a year?? If so is this a spring thing or what? The reason I ask is I just had another spawn a few weeks ago and now I have little guys EVERYWHERE. Would they have just spawned? I assume their beds look very similar to BG beds? I hope it was another BG spawn. I have had couple since the beginning of July.


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Similarity Index
Bass, Rock Moderately similar
Bluegill Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Pumpkinseed Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Green N/A
Sunfish, Longear Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Orangespotted Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Warmouth Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar


Green Sunfish by WiscFish


Body
Mouth and snout: Mouth Terminal, large and oblique, with pads of small teeth on the jaws. No barbels. Body patterning, color, and scales: Back dark brown, olive, or green, sides yellow-green or blue-green, belly tan or yellow. Sides either with a more-or-less solid color, faint dark blotches or mottling, irregular faint light blue or yellowish SPOTS, and/or diffuse dark vertical bars. Sometimes 3-5 bluish lines radiating backward from underneath the eye; opercular flap dark with a light margin. Dorsal, caudal, and to a lesser extent anal fins usually darkly pigmented with faint dark blotches or light dark spots and often a light yellow/cream margin; pelvic and pectoral fins lightly pigmented to dusky. 44-51 ctenoid lateral scales. Body shape and size: Body laterally compressed and deep, somewhat elongated; oval in cross section. Typically 75-150 mm (3-6 in) TL; maximum in Wisconsin about 250 mm (10 in).
Fins
Tail, dorsal and other fins: Slightly Forked or round tail. Dorsal fin with 2 lobes, broadly joined by a membrane and appearing as one fin, the first with 9-11 spines and the second with 10-12 rays. Pelvic fins thoracic. Adipose fin absent. Anal fin with 3 spines and 9-10 rays.

EFISH
GSF
Reproductive Habits:
· Mature at age 1 or 3
· Spawning occurs late May through July
· Males build nests around vegetation
· Fecundity is 2,000-10,000 eggs per female per year
· Hybridizes with many other sunfish species


Last edited by ewest; 09/21/16 01:22 PM.















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Peachgrower this is what I remember from reading, but I could be mistaken. Experts please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

LMB spawn earliest. RES and BG are next as water temperature rises and often overlap. GSF come slightly later than the first BG spawn (spawn in a little warmer water). GSF are generally believed to spawn once, but it is also possible for late maturing individuals to spawn for the first time later in the season as they reach sexual maturity. So as I recall it is possible to see GSF spawn later, but it is not their main spawning season.

So from my reading (not experience) it is likely BG or RES but it would not be impossible for it to be GSF.

I have personally seen RES on shallow beds this time of year.

Last edited by snrub; 09/21/16 03:14 PM.

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Thanks guys! That does shed some light. I see what you mean about the late maturing. I have caught one BG so far so thats what worries me. Other than that all GSF. I have seen three good spawns since the July. I stocked the BG on July 8. Hope thats what I have been seeing. I know patience comes in with control of the GSF....MAN patience is HARD...I don't know how you guys do it! I guess for now I will grow some really nice GSF and hope to have some BG/RES growing at the same time.

Here is another question for you GSF people. When they feed, do you see a difference in the way they attack the feed compared to BG? I feel like I can see a difference. The reason I say this is where "I believe" most of the BG are, I see a small swirl where they hit. It doesn't matter the amount of feed, time when I feed, or anything. They make a quiet swirl and small chirp when they hit the feed. Now everywhere else, where I know GSF are and I catch alot of then, the feeding is different. There is a splash and you can see the fish hit, then splash slightly sideways. It doesn't matter if the feed is right up on the shore where the little ones are or out further. They hit the same way. Now, that being said, am I crazy or has anyone else seen this? Seems the GSF attack the feed (optimal BG) where as the BG hit it but do not splash. I don't really have a way to prove this other than the BG I have caught are all from the shallow cove...but I have caught a few GSF there too...but not nearly as many as down the way in the shallows.

Thanks again guys!!

ewest...can you explain the similarity index? Is this spawning times or what?


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GSF are very aggressive feeders and what I have found is even a 3-4" GSF can take a pellet because of its mouth size where it takes a larger BG for the same size pellet. One of the things I noticed in my old pond when I realized I had a large population of smaller GSF was the way the hit pellets on the surface.

But you may find that later your BG can become just as aggressive. I think it has to do with competition. If your BG are schooling together and their numbers are relatively low they may not feel the need to compete for the available feed. At some point in time that could change and BG can definitely become very aggressive feeders when they choose to be.

Right now I have an abundance of BG in my main pond and I feed the perimeter of the pond daily. They tear into the feed like piranhas. They literally make the water boil in certain areas of the pond. But I think it is because there more fish than the amount of feed I'm feeding will satisfy. So they get in there and really compete.

I probably should be feeding more to keep them growing well but they are about to break the bank the way it is. I'm feeding about 12# per day for 4 acres of water. That is almost a 50# bag every 4 days. No way I can justify spending that much money on feed except that I enjoy doing it. crazy

You may see a change in your BG behavior some day.


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I definitely see a difference in green sunfish and bluegill strikes when feeding pellets. Since there are more GSF able to eat pellets in the pond than BG, I'm assuming that they would have the same competitive nature as BG when their numbers are large enough. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the aggressive nature of the green sunfish be compounded by competition?

If this is true, could green sunfish actually grow faster when a higher percentage of them make up the pond?

If I'm off on a tangent, ignore the comment.

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Conner I would agree with that...it makes sense. Where I know GSF are the feed does not last long. Where I think the BG are they are almost lazy. I think like snrub said as they grow they'll become more competitive. The GSF are very abundant and EVERY one I catch has had a fat belly. Never cut one open but I'm sure it is optimal! lol


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In so far as this thread concerns the Similarity index is in telling one from the other as juveniles by sight (not checking all morphology. i.e. its hard to tell them apart.
















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