Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
JPL, Taylor Cline, Bham, ejosey3, Meeksman
15697 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15698 Members
36 Forums
36145 Topics
491987 Posts

Max Online: 1210 @ 08/23/18 11:01 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24029
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19619
Dave Davidson1 13625
Bill Cody 12550
Who's Online
4 registered (Snipe, anthropic, DrLuke, teehjaeh57), 104 Guests and 423 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
#370614 - 03/30/14 10:54 AM DIY sump pump/aerator
mcfalcon Offline


Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 3
Loc: southeast texas
Ok all these videos on youtube about sump pumps outfitted with venturi devices for circulation and aeration. Is this good idea? Has anyone tried it? Maybe pros/cons.
_________________________
Fishing is the right medication for everything.

Top
#370627 - 03/30/14 11:54 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5281
Loc: SE Kansas
I have for many years made use of things not designed to be used for a specific purpose, making it do a new purpose. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not so well.

For something that is going to be in continuous use, energy cost should be a big consideration. For example, you might save a few bucks on not buying the pump specifically for the purpose, only to find out later that the electric cost to run it has amounted to more than what the proper pump would have cost to begin with.

Maybe not. Just something to think about. "Making do" for temporary use items is sometimes very practical. For something that is going to be used a lot or in continuous use, using the correct tool a lot of times makes more sense.

I like tinkering and making use of surplus stuff I have laying around for other purposes. It is fun. But for things I am dependent on or use a lot, am not afraid of buying the right tool for the job. Shooting myself in the foot (metaphorically speaking) numerous times has brought about this line of thinking.

If you do it, good luck and by all means let us know how it turned out.
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#370633 - 03/30/14 12:19 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
mcfalcon Offline


Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 3
Loc: southeast texas
If i do attempt I will most certainly post results. Ive been reading about the thermal stratification of pons and aeration. I guess my theory on this would be intake on bottom, plus air, exhaust on top would equal twice the water mixing.Ohhhhhh... I didnt mention just bought a house with pond. Few BG like 10 catchable and babies and few catfish like under 10 well now I have roughly 60-80 newborn cat babies and I want to make sure they have the best environment I can give them. And NO MONEY . LOL
_________________________
Fishing is the right medication for everything.

Top
#370670 - 03/30/14 05:52 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12550
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Venturi aerators and injectors are good tools for the right job or certain applications. I don't think the venturi is the best device for mixing ponds larger than garden or koi-goldfish type ponds. The venturi system will work but it is too inefficient for large pond aeration.
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

Top
#370709 - 03/31/14 12:32 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5281
Loc: SE Kansas
Welcome to the forum and there are LOTS and lots of threads on using various methods to de-stratify a pond.

One thing that is hard for some people to conceptualize in the systems that use air is just how much water they move. People might be familiar with an aquarium aerator and think that the bubbles are what is doing the aeration. It does to a very small degree, but what does the majority is the air-water interface at the surface. The bubbles move the water from depth to the surface where it can take on O2 at the air/water interface.

I have an air pump that uses just 100 watts of energy to run it. But from a depth at 8-9' where the diffuser is it moves thousands and thousands of gallons of water a day. It moves enough water that it will repel my paddle boat away from it with more gusto than a person would imagine from the water current produced.

People get the incorrect idea that the bubbles are the aeration. They are not. They are just the work horses that move the water. It is the air/water interface at the surface that does the majority of taking on O2 from the air.

This water current produced by the bubbles is also what moves the water from lower levels to the surface to de-stratify a pond.

There is no way I could get an electric water pump to move the gallons of water my 100 watt air pump will for the same amount of energy cost. I bet it would take 5 or 10 times the wattage to move the same amount of water with a water pump.

So either a water pump or an air pump will both move water. They both have their places. In some of the situations, the air just does it more energy efficient (but not all situations).

Just something to consider in your planning. See what electric your sump pump uses then find an on line calculator to find its monthly operating cost based on your cost per kwh. Might save you from a nasty surprise on your electric bill.

At least that is the way I understand it. I'm no expert at anything.


Edited by snrub (03/31/14 01:03 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#370922 - 04/01/14 06:58 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
mcfalcon Offline


Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 3
Loc: southeast texas
TY snrub. I kinda wondered how bubbles that burst at the top of the water did anything to add oxygen to the water itself when it just rises pops and keeps rising lol. And yes 100 watts sound a lot less expensive than the 700-900 watt pumps ive been looking at. You definitely shined some light on the subject ty.
_________________________
Fishing is the right medication for everything.

Top
#370927 - 04/01/14 07:34 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
More oxygen is added to the water through the surface film/air intersection than from the bubbles of the aeration system.

That's why the lifting rates in GPM of the diffusers is so important. The more water volume that is exposed to the air, the more O2 added.

That's why surface agitators do such a good job adding O2. MUCH more surface area of the water comes in contact with the air. But then you get into the electricity costs vs. amount of O2 added debate.

Both types of systems have their place, it's up to the pond owner to decide which one (or both) to go with.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#486070 - 02/12/18 03:11 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
albertbill21 Offline


Registered: 02/09/18
Posts: 1
Loc: los angles
please help me out which model of sump pump is better ?
thanks

Top
#486072 - 02/12/18 07:18 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: albertbill21]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5281
Loc: SE Kansas
Sump pumps are good for pumping sumps. Not very good for aeriating a pond.


Edited by snrub (02/12/18 08:25 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#486084 - 02/12/18 11:58 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6980
Loc: St Louis, MO area
albertbill21, welcome to the forum! What size is your pond? Max and average depths, shape...?

As snrub said, a sump m\pump would cost a lot in electricity and would do little in the way of actual aeration.....Air costs FAR less to pump than water, and gives far better results for the dollar.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top
#486102 - 02/13/18 12:59 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: albertbill21]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
Originally Posted By: albertbill21
please help me out which model of sump pump is better ?
thanks


I would use a brushless waterfall pump if your going to use a water pump. I have a few of the maxflow units and love them. I have two big 5500 gph units. One that run 24/7 in the summer and winter.
_________________________

http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.

Top
#489338 - 04/30/18 12:48 PM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
Twar Offline


Registered: 04/09/17
Posts: 18
Loc: NY
I am looking at the same type of venturi aeration, only with a bilge pump running off a solar panel. I am looking to aerate a 3,000 sqft forage pond.

I need to run solar as I am too far from electric. Worst case I burn up a $30 pump, but still have the 100 watt panel for upgrading.


What would be the most beneficial, pumping surface water down with the venturi, so it bubbles up and forces top water to the bottom, or setting the pump deep and pumping bottom water up with the bubbles?

I would pump air, but I would have to spend $500-$600 minimum. With this setup I am aiming for $200.

$110 - 100 watt panel
$30 - Attwood Tsunami 1200
$20 - Schumacher charge controller and load controller that will shut off power to the pump if battery charge is depleted.
$20 - 7-10ah 12v AGM battery
$10 - Venturi injector

May even skip the battery and charger and see how long the pump holds up wired directly to the panel.

Top
#493450 - 07/08/18 11:38 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 542
Loc: Louisiana
If you're dead set on using this type of system, IMO, you'd be better off taking water from the surface, which will already have a higher O2 content, and run the discharge out to deeper water in the middle of the pond and allow the bubbles (minimal at best) to rise and help bring the less oxygenated water to the surface. My understanding of venturi systems is they are more effective when you get the valve as close to the discharge as possible. Using a livewell type aeration sprayer on the end of the discharge would create a larger bubble field and should increase your uplift. What you lose in uplift circulation you'll gain in pumping off the top. You could probably get by with a short piece of pvc pipe attached to the end of the discharge with a lot of small holes drilled in it. Just make sure it's well attached so you don't blow it off the end of the pipe with too much back pressure. That's just my way of thinking tho. I'm probably wrong. I was once, but I've slept since then.


Edited by Mike Whatley (07/08/18 11:46 AM)
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epidomy of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, FHM, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia and apparently, now crappie.

Top
#495782 - 09/03/18 07:15 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: mcfalcon]
Johny13 Offline


Registered: 09/03/18
Posts: 1
Loc: Pakistan
you people are talking about sump pump. hope to get the exact answer of my question from you people that's why posting here " Recommend me best Sump Pump of 2018 for use" My older sump pumps were not long lasting


Edited by Johny13 (09/08/18 03:26 AM)

Top
#495787 - 09/03/18 09:54 AM Re: DIY sump pump/aerator [Re: Johny13]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
Originally Posted By: Johny13
you people are talking about sump pump. hope to get the exact answer of my question from you people that's why posting here " Recommend me best Sump pump for home use" My older sump pumps were not long lasting


99% of sump pump failures is on off use or a small stone sucked in. All home sump pumps should sit on top of a house brick off the bottom about 2"s. This will keep you from sucking up a stone locking the impeller but the float telling the pump to run. This will burn up a sump pump quick.

The one pump I recommended from TSC the max flo 20,000 is the real deal. I have one set up to fill our pond from a creek installed into a milk crate with a sump pump float screwed to the corner of the crate. When a sump pump takes a dump the float is still good. Just unscrew it and keep it.

Cheers Don.

Hoo dam just seen your from Pakistan. You should be able to order the brushless from here. I have ordered the impellers from here. I was cleaning one and dropped the impeller mag shaft and broke the ceramic shaft. They were able to ship me two new mag drives with impeller attached.


Edited by DonoBBD (09/03/18 09:57 AM)
_________________________

http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.

Top
#497873 - 10/24/18 05:02 PM Aerating pond 24/7 [Re: mcfalcon]
Bruiser Offline


Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 2
Loc: KS
I have a pond that is .4 of an acre and it is burmed all the way around so there is nothing that can run into or out of my pond. I use an aerator that has 2 round soaker hose type diffusers. My pond is 12' deep and diffusers are set at 8'. I have been running them 24/7 for the past year. I haven't had any dead fish that I can see. Is this a bad idea to be running them this long? I don't have much algae buildup and as far as I can tell my fish are ok. I have small mouth, bluegill and CC in the pond.

Top
#497888 - 10/25/18 09:16 AM Re: Aerating pond 24/7 [Re: mcfalcon]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 852
Loc: West Central Missouri
I am new to aeration this year, but I can give you my thoughts...

You need to verify, somehow, that you are turning the pond over enough (once per day)to avoid slowly mixing up lower "stale" water which would constantly be bring up the poisons and O2 absent waters associated with water that would be below a thermocline. I suspect that you are not presenting this problem if you have not been seeing dead fish during it's time of operation, but it is something to verify. What size and type of pump are you using? Do you have a brand name for your diffusers?

Let's assume your system is adequate in turning the pond over at least once a day per the rule of thumb and your location in Kansas will see some cold winter weather. I believe that the aeration should be turned off once the outside air temperatures get below the water temperatures. Your air system should be keeping the water temps pretty consistent from near the surface (5 inches down)all the way down to the diffusers. Let say to within 5 degrees or so. If the outside air temps get below the water temp, the aeration system is effectively cooling the pond down which is unnecessary. I may be splitting hairs here, but winter time aeration seems to be unneeded as colder waters hold O2 better and fish metabolisms slow way down. There is no reason to cool the pond down prematurely as fall sets in. All you will be doing is taking away from the fish's ability to feed during these transition weeks and you could possibly cool the pond down enough to kill the fish if the water gets too cold. Fish will hang out in the deeper warmer waters, but aeration will typically void those warm winter havens.

I was running my summertime air at nights only to avoid heating my small pond up during the day, then I switched to running during the day as air temps at night cooled off below the water temps. Then, I brought my system down over the course of one week by reducing the runtime in half every day as daytime temps dropped below the water temps. Changing up the air schedule really messed with the feeding and fishing, but I felt that avoiding any cooling of the pond was more important.

Just my novice theories, AND welcome to Pond Boss...you have come to the right place!
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#497890 - 10/25/18 11:46 AM Re: Aerating pond 24/7 [Re: mcfalcon]
nehunter Offline


Registered: 07/20/15
Posts: 94
Loc: NE
Would turning the water column with a larger system that runs for an hour or two be more cost effective, than a smaller system that takes 12 hours to turn over the same amount of water? Shorter run times less elec. less noise and system would last longer. Would the drastic change in a short period of time be hard on the fish?

Top
#497894 - 10/25/18 01:04 PM Re: Aerating pond 24/7 [Re: nehunter]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 852
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: nehunter
Would turning the water column with a larger system that runs for an hour or two be more cost effective, than a smaller system that takes 12 hours to turn over the same amount of water? Shorter run times less elec. less noise and system would last longer.


My initial thoughts would relate back to the conservation of energy and the principles of Work. Ignoring some of the finer engineering details regarding the two theoretical systems, I think it would be a wash as far as energy savings would be concerned. Both systems would be doing the same amount of work which leads me to believe they would both require the same amount of energy input. The equipment would have to get bigger and/or more numerous which equals more investment.

Originally Posted By: nehunter
Would the drastic change in a short period of time be hard on the fish?
This is where the meat really is IMO. A faster turn over could mean more sediments that get kicked up into the water column because of the increased water velocities that would be required for a faster turn over. This would not likely be desirable. Temperature could be a concern it the water would try to develop a thermocline during the other 23 hours of the day. I think consistency is the most desirable trait in a pond aeration system. We just have to determine what should be more consistent...O2 levels, temps, clarity, water flow/velocities, etc and adjust accordingly. e.g. Running the air 24/7 would likely be the best IF temperature was not a concern, but when temp comes in to play, I'd rather see the temperatures maintained at reasonable levels and the water flow/O2 level consistency can be sacrificed.

Don't for get why the pond is being turned over...to allow O2 to be absorbed into the water at the air to water interface. If you turn the pond over very fast, you have minimized its time being exposed to the air.

My 2 cents worth of theory soup based on PB readings and a bit of experience.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

Top
#497904 - 10/25/18 03:39 PM Re: Aerating pond 24/7 [Re: mcfalcon]
Bruiser Offline


Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 2
Loc: KS
In my pond I use an aerator from DIY Pond Aeration and I believe it is 1/4 HP. It runs 2 diffusers. The diffusers are made of soaker hose made into a circle. The first one is about 30' form the compressor and the second is about 100'. It was always my contention that fish needed the oxygen in the winter to survive. The first year I filled my pond, 2016, with well water and stocked it and I lost all of my fish b/c of no oxygen. I think because it was well water there was no oxygen in the water when I pumped it into my pond. Ever since I have ran my aerators 24/7/365 and this will be the 3rd winter. So I had one winter w/o one and one winter with the aerator and I haven't lost any fish. At least none float on the water. I was told that if a fish dies in the winter it will float to the bottom. Also, the rep at DIY told me that it was best to run it year round. I live in NW KS and our winters can be cold and the pond will completely freeze over. Electricity cost is not an issue, it doesn't use that much. It seems that everyone who does use an aerator on this forum uses them sparingly.

Top

Today's Birthdays
bobguillory, cchoate, Gary R. Hoenicke, John H., Loren, Loren Willis
Recent Posts
Concrete tailings??
by Snipe
0 seconds ago
Help me build a 4 acre pond!
by anthropic
24 minutes 15 seconds ago
Surprise
by ewest
Yesterday at 09:48 PM
Perch ribbons, mid March and cold!
by SetterGuy
Yesterday at 09:17 PM
Happy Birthday DonoBBD!
by Sunil
Yesterday at 09:05 PM
TP in Mid East OH this spring?
by Bill Cody
Yesterday at 08:31 PM
Leak in pond
by John Fitzgerald
Yesterday at 05:13 PM
Oily Surface on Pond
by Mike Whatley
Yesterday at 02:19 PM
1st full pool since 4/13/18
by Mike Whatley
Yesterday at 10:50 AM
Do you need BG > 7" in order to grow a 10#LMB?
by Dave Davidson1
Yesterday at 09:47 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Pond site
Pond dig
My recent haul
Hello From Lufkin Texas!
Cant seem to Identify what this is.  Any thoughts?
Evaluating and adjusting Fish populations and ID

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide