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#483689 - 12/04/17 12:12 PM Scuds.
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

Are there any members here who are breeding gammarus (scuds).

I would like to make a small pond with these gammares,which I could harvest in large quantities to give to my young perch fry.

They say they spreads quickly.

A+

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#483692 - 12/04/17 12:34 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
I have done it and will be setting up multiple cultures shortly, in part to feed Pirate Perch.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483697 - 12/04/17 01:47 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
what do they need to survive? What do they eat?

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#483698 - 12/04/17 02:07 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
They feed mostly on microorganisms they find in contact with where they walk about. In settings easily controlled, they do well feeding organisms that break down dead leaves. The organisms can include fungi, protozoans, bacteria, etc.. In nature, attached algae and small critters moving about on bottom are likely more important much of the year.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483700 - 12/04/17 02:55 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
how does one source them in the wild and can they be sourced in cold weather months or through the ice?

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#483701 - 12/04/17 02:57 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

Last summer to take gammares, I put large pieces of Zucchini on the edge of a small river, hoping that in the morning it was to be full of gammarus.

Surprise it was full of Fathead minnow on the Zucchini.

A+

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#483702 - 12/04/17 03:17 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
You can collect them from headwater streams where leaves are abundant. Generally, scud abundance drops as fish abundance increases. Now through early spring is good time to collect them. If working with natives, then take a fine mesh net and scoop wet leaves from water. Then pick them out by hand or simply incubate whole mess in a container that is well aerated and about 60 F.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483703 - 12/04/17 03:22 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
I wrote in ignorance concerning scuds of Quebec. Tempera optima likley lower, much lower that typical of scuds in the lower 48 excepting those from mountainous areas.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483707 - 12/04/17 04:07 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

Sometimes when the ice is clear you can see scuds under the ice.

I will try to catch them in the spring like you said it make sense.

The one I have is Gammarus Fasciatus.

A+


Edited by azteca (12/04/17 04:11 PM)

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#483711 - 12/04/17 05:10 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5556
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Here is an old thread that might be of interest. Lots of different scud topics discussed

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=476536&page=1
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#483718 - 12/04/17 06:15 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

I have lots of Hyalella azteca, but I find them to small for the fish.

I have lots of Azteca in my 3 vernal pool in the wood.
The Salamanders love them.



A+

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#483719 - 12/04/17 06:27 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Are you certain they are Mexican Scuds Hyalella azteca? They are not that cold tolerant to my understanding.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483722 - 12/04/17 06:54 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5556
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Gammarus lacustris might be a good choice for Quebec. There is a supplier in Minnesota that provides them at a reasonable price. He only collects and sells them around January. He says thru the ice is the only time they can be collected in large quantity. I tried some here in Illinois but I think the water was too warm for them.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#483724 - 12/04/17 07:00 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: Bill D.]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 774
Loc: in the mountains
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Gammarus lacustris might be a good choice for Quebec. There is a supplier in Minnesota that provides them at a reasonable price. He only collects and sells them around January. He says thru the ice is the only time they can be collected in large quantity. I tried some here in Illinois but I think the water was too warm for them.


I'm curious how much he sells them for?? I've got millions of scuds!
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#483725 - 12/04/17 07:36 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

To Jim, I send you a studies it's in french but you have a good part in english.

At the chapter1 in french they talk about the Azteca from the pond Des Baies in Québec.

Also they talk about the amphipode Lacustris


https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kaven_Dionne/publication/283697682_Structure_d'une_communaute_d'amphipodes_Hyalella_azteca_et_sa_consommation_des_detritus_organiques_selon_la_saison_dans_la_zone_littorale_d'un_lac_boreal/links/56434f8e08ae9f9c13e03437.pdf




A+


Edited by azteca (12/04/17 09:45 PM)

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#483727 - 12/04/17 09:08 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
wbuffetjr, I'd love to try to establish scuds in my MI pond. I found a few places online but they are pretty close lipped about how they harvest through ice and only sell certain months for a pretty steep price.

Since you are familiar with CO, this outfit in Fort Collins sells scuds but they don't post their price. They also say they specialize in solar aeration outfits, but by now you could probably give lessons to them...

http://www.cfiglobal.com/AboutUs.htm

This guy, used to be on forum as 'LandDr' but his name is Kyle sells them. He worked with Bill Cody on an order and has sold to others but the feedback has been that people put the scuds in and often they never see a one again. They do need habitat to hide in in the presence of fish but not sure if there are other requirements to maintain them (pH, clarity for adequate sun, DO, etc) I tried on to occasions already to establish gammarus in my pond in MI but I think I don't have enough vegetation or the fish are really good at picking them off.

-------------
quoting from another post:

Hey everyone...Kyle here from PLM...hope the new year is well.

I enjoyed reading the entire string...except for the beginning about not being able to get ahold of me. I am just as puzzled about...but here I am anyway.

I just wanted to provide you with a courtesy post letting you know that we will be starting our Freshwater Shrimp harvest very soon. If you are interested in shrimp or have any questions, please visit the link below for additional information. Feel free to contact me with any additional questions...please pass this information on to others that may be interested as well.

http://www.habitatnow.com/store/shop/shop.php?pn_selected_category=19

Here are some details...

$85 per gallon...20 to 40 "thousand" shrimp per gallon (it's ALLOT of shrimp)
Shipping is usually $30 to $95 per gallon depending on where you want it shipped.
FREE pick up if you want to pick your order up at our Glenwood, MN store.
Shrimp are shipped "next day" delivery if you chose to have them shipped.
Shrimp must be installed within 48 hours...24 hours for shipping and 24 hours for you to put them in your pond.
* If you open the bag when you receive them and put them into a larger container (large cooler for example) and put more freshwater or air on them, they might do well for several days or longer...just don't let them pile up and suffocate each other.
* ALL deliveries will be coordinated with you to assure that you are around to receive your order and are prepared to install it.

I may deliver personally...currently I have a route developing going out to Oregon (states to stop at along the way will be selected based on orders) and another going Missouri (states to stop at along the way will be selected based on orders). Personal delivery assures that I will be focusing on delivering shrimp and not everyone else's packages and as well making sure that nothing gets stuck in a warehouse somewhere or lost in shipping. * Other routes may be developed based on other orders. Feel free to email me with questions.

We will also be harvesting Sago and Celery in the spring after "ice-out". Sorry...we are out of wild rice until harvest in September 2008. You may place orders for rice as it is a first secured - first shipped option.

Again, if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at info@HabitatNOW.com

Thanks!

Kyle, PLM
http://www.HabitatNOW.com



-----------


I'd like to try again, but my strategy I think would have to be a larger 'inoculation' or stocking. I can't get any vegetation to get established now that the crayfish are eating every veggie in sight and the mud they stir up keeps the turbidity up.

Cost is an issue unless you know of a way to ship literally millions (flat rate?). Kyle gets about $100 for a 'gallon' which is not a gallon of water but the amount of shrimp that would displace a gallon of water, minus the amount of water you have to add back just to keep them alive in the box.


I'm fascinated by your post with no snow in the mountains. Your friend who is going to swap out the pump should try his or her hand at netting large quantity of scuds smile

Mr. Cody, you stocked I think in 2007 or 2008 according to the post I found. Any sight of them?


---------
Another post from Kyle while he was gearing up for the ice harvest in Jan of 2011. It sounds like the rainbows really feast on them!


********************
Hey guys...hope all is well.

We started harvesting shrimp about two weeks ago and, if the weather holds out, we will be harvesting thru February and maybe even into March.

I am pretty sure we will have a delivery route going thru WI, Ohio and east...then continue down south to NC, SC and GA. I don't have enough orders right now to set up a route from MN south thru IA, MO, etc.

I have had a pretty good response from customers on their shrimp...especially the trout guys that have really like the shrimp for adding weight and color to the trout. Here is just one comment and contact from a customer...let me know if you have any questions at all.

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe_Cross@irco.com
To: HabitatNOW.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: Freshwater Shrimp

Kyle,

Things are good here. Thanks for asking.

Unless something tragic happens in the lake, I think I will be good for the foreseeable future on my scud population. I can’t pick up any plant life out of the lake without seeing a ton of scuds on it. Thanks again and if you ever need a testimonial, just let me know!

Hope all is well in your part of the country as well.

Sincerely,
Joe

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#483728 - 12/04/17 09:13 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
And Jim W, while we are on the topic of scuds/shrimp, many of us are still looking for a source to buy shrimp of the type: Palaemonetes kadiakensis

WE understand they are one of the only cold tolerant shrimp. Can you help locate a source for stocking?

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#483729 - 12/04/17 09:40 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 774
Loc: in the mountains
I wonder how they "harvest them"?? I've read about taking a coffee can, punching holes in it with a nail and putting bait inside to catch leeches. Maybe something similar for the scuds?? I also wonder why they can't harvest until Winter? This video does NOT do them justice! I have them everywhere!!

I have tried to use CFI. Let's just say they are not the easiest folks to get a hold of. I was originally hoping to buy one of their aeration rigs and couldn't even get a call back. That is really how I ended up going DIY on my solar deal! I finally just gave up on being able to buy something! After that, I even tried to do business with them and could hardly even get a call back AGAIN! I wanted to buy some Brook Trout from them because it does sound like they have the best trout around. I ended up waiting on them until everyone else was basically sold out of Brookies and then they told me their fish had a problem and they wouldn't be selling any.





Edited by wbuffetjr (12/04/17 10:09 PM)
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#483730 - 12/04/17 09:44 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 774
Loc: in the mountains
No idea what species they are, but I know they can handle cold water! Lol
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
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#483734 - 12/04/17 10:06 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

To Jim,I had trouble with the post.

A+

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#483738 - 12/05/17 06:46 AM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
I did some looking around. The Hyalella azteca is regarded as a species complex that is being split up. My met is even though they look very similar, they have adaptions to things like temperature regime. My suggestion is you try to source locally unless they are to be cultured only in a controlled environment.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#483742 - 12/05/17 08:15 AM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
wbuffetjr, those look like some huge very active scuds! I'd love to have a couple hundred thousand of those in my pond! Maybe this spring at ice out you can find a way to net those and I'd be happy to try them and reimburse you!

I don't know how they harvest but I suspect sweeping shallow areas with vegetation with a wide fine mesh net. Perhaps they cut out the ice in the shallow waters? Perhaps scuds congregate in 'warmer' waters in shallows in winter?

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#483752 - 12/05/17 11:02 AM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
azteca Offline


Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 135
Loc: QUEBEC
Hello.

To Jim.

I found a site on Hyalella azteca that is found in the Rideau river in Ontario.
It is in french sorry.

https://www.nature.ca/rideau/b/b5c-f.html

A+


Edited by azteca (12/05/17 11:03 AM)

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#483764 - 12/05/17 02:01 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: canyoncreek]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 774
Loc: in the mountains
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
wbuffetjr, those look like some huge very active scuds! I'd love to have a couple hundred thousand of those in my pond! Maybe this spring at ice out you can find a way to net those and I'd be happy to try them and reimburse you!

I don't know how they harvest but I suspect sweeping shallow areas with vegetation with a wide fine mesh net. Perhaps they cut out the ice in the shallow waters? Perhaps scuds congregate in 'warmer' waters in shallows in winter?


Canyon - at my place there would have to be some way to trap them. I have netted a ton of them and my kids have probably netted enough to stock your lake!! Sorting thru all the material to pick them out is a major pia. Unfortunately, until I permanently live in CO, being there at ice out just doesn't happen. Hopefully in the not too distant future that will change and I would happily send you some!
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#483768 - 12/05/17 02:28 PM Re: Scuds. [Re: azteca]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1744
Loc: West Michigan
Have you had just as much success seeing/netting them in the middle of the summer when you were there? I'm not sure why folks who harvest them focus on through the ice or at ice out.

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