My first 2 LMB of the year. Pre-frontal conditions, CNBG were actively feeding, 2 degree water temp rise, and deer were out roaming. A good day to get my recreational fishing over with for the year, and get back to culling.
RW 133 7.1 pounds, 21" long
RW 126 5.7 pounds, 20" long. If you look closely, you can see the numbered tag by the back part of her dorsel fin.
Luke...stock some RES and, in my experience, those black grub infestations will be eliminated [provided you can establish an RES population]. I stock RES in every client's pond whether they want them or not.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Luke...stock some RES and, in my experience, those black grub infestations will be eliminated [provided you can establish an RES population]. I stock RES in every client's pond whether they want them or not.
TJ!
How about posting some of those Ice Monsters I saw on Facebook?
Al, Those are beautiful!! How big is your pond? How big were those when you stocked and how old are they? What did your tag reveal? You are certainly doing something right!! Congrats!!!
Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
Tracy, I caught them on a Jackall Gantarel in RT Spawn Gill color. You'll love this part. I threw that near 2.5oz honker for almost an hour before I got a bite. 4 or 5 casts, then I'd change the retrieve, 4-5 more, then change again. Ultimately I caught 2, and had 3 more hard hits with a very slow consistent retrieve. 3 seconds per reel wind. Excruciatingly slow fishing, but the LMB reacted almost immediately when I figured out what they wanted on that particular day. The LMB my wife was referring to were our hand fed babies. We never fish for those, as they are for special guests only. Brian's been over when I fed them, and it's quite the sight to watch them line up and wait for their crippled CNBG to hit the water.
Flame, my pond is 11 acres, and these are probably from my original fingerling stocking back in 2000. Unfortunately, I can't find my journal with the tag numbers, but I did tag LMB at around 2#'s 3 years ago. I'll be stocking 25 tagged Legacy's from my hatchery pond this spring, so I'll hopefully take better care of my data this time.
Luke...stock some RES and, in my experience, those black grub infestations will be eliminated [provided you can establish an RES population]. I stock RES in every client's pond whether they want them or not.
TJ!
How about posting some of those Ice Monsters I saw on Facebook?
Agreed!!!
Why you gotta put those of FB, and not here, Freak???
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Luke...stock some RES and, in my experience, those black grub infestations will be eliminated [provided you can establish an RES population]. I stock RES in every client's pond whether they want them or not.
TJ!
How about posting some of those Ice Monsters I saw on Facebook?
Agreed!!!
Why you gotta put those of FB, and not here, Freak???
Herculean effort to post to this ancient UBB software...
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Last tidbit for today; our staff will be in touch with UBB to see what kind of updates they have available to make the forum more user friendly. We've held off because they have been working on new updates. So, we'll check in with them to see what's available and what it will take to improve the forum.
Condello Strain BG pics from my trophy BG pond. Fishery comprised of 100% male with few male HBG, RES and BRES stocked. Grass shrimp and FHM forage base - supplemental feed Optimal and Skretting. Most CSBG average 9-10", with a few fish over 11". Fishery goal is for 90% population 10"+. HBG stocked last Spring at 5-6" now averaging 8-9". Culling any inferior fish below 110 WR.
Pair of 10.5" CSBG
Another
Another
Here's an 11"+...you get the idea
HBCP growing well - aided by dock feeding special project!
Pond record, 18"
16"
16"
WE average 18" with some 24"+ fish coming on - dang this guy catches some big fish!
24"
22"
Multiple size classes of HSB help manage recruitment of all species, some big girls came out to play! These are 26-29" and quite a challenge to ice on 2# test.
Seeing some SMB approaching 20" now, here's a couple 18"+ fish. Bricks.
Amazingly, we also iced many good CSBG in the main pond up to 10". YP are taking a beating - only sampled 5-6 fish this year - may start supplementally stocking adult fish annually to restore the great YP fishery we've historically enjoyed.
Thanks PB for the guidance. Any Midwestern pondmeisters looking for consulting, fire me up! These fish were produced in .25 acre and 2 acre ponds.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Are you on any kind of culling program for SMB, YP, or BG?
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
TJ -Those are Awesome!Do you keep fishing pressure low on these ponds?
Do you see any recruitment on the HBC? Would be cool to add those or maybe some WE to my mix, maybe 15-20. You feed BG chunks to the HBC?
You had helped me with initial stocking numbers on the forum , my pond is over a year old now and doing great. I had asked Bob in his Wednesday calls to give me some ideas on carrying capacity and harvest info... 0.6 Acre pond, good fishing pressure and mostly by kids. I figure 5-10% of initial yearly population attrition due to hook set etc per year, especially the HSB and YP...
Bob said 250lb was good estimate for carrying capacity , said I could add some fish, and do some harvesting but didn't really elaborate.
Stocked through the year 100 YP 6-8" 50 HSB , now 12-15" 75 RES 150 HBG , now 6-8" 85 HBG, stocked at 6-8" 30 SMB, 6"-15" 15lb FHM
Feed mix of Optimal BG/Bass/ and some larger pellets they had similar to Aquamax.
Should I harvest any YP or HSB? I think this happens naturally with all the kids fishing, but maybe could take some more out this Spring , and then add some smaller YP and HSB to replace?
Are you on any kind of culling program for SMB, YP, or BG?
So far no evidence of WE recruitment, but that doesn't come as much of a surprise for a small, clay-lined pond. I ladder stock WE every year or two to keep the population around 50/acre - I buy advanced fish [12-15"] from a hatchery up North which are only age 2. It would take me 3-4 years to grow 4-6" age 0 fish that large, so I don't mind the investment annually - literally buying time and the adult fish suffer little to no predation using this method.
BG management is an ongoing effort from ice out to ice up. Confirmed male fish showing potential are caged for potential grading and gender confirmation [Condello] and are stocked in the trophy male lepomis fishery.
I'm on a zero cull rule for YP as the population has suffered the past few seasons due to heavy predation from the apex predators. I'm trying to restore the population to it's historical glory years, next year I'll be stocking a few hundred adult fish [8"+] in another effort to get them going again.
I've only caught a few SMB demonstrating below 100 WR, but imagine I'll start seeing more that are on the decline and will cull those. Otherwise recruitment is extremely low due to dense predator population, and the only SMB stocking I perform is by selecting the top 5% fish [5-15 SMB annually] I raise for hatchery sale. I want to keep those fish in the main pond as they're showing some serious potential. Some of these exception fish grow from 1mm fry in mid May to 8" by late October. Those babies are not for sale!
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
TJ -Those are Awesome!Do you keep fishing pressure low on these ponds?
Very light pressure except occasional fly casting to keep my trout fishing skills honed - I am in full management mode from ice out to ice up. This helps the solid angling experience and reduces mortality issues with repeated handling of fish throughout the year. I'm so busy with management throughout the year I couldn't fish if I wanted to. I will sample a dozen fish in the lepomis pond in the Spring and again in the Fall and compare trends, otherwise it's just feeding and water quality management.
Do you see any recruitment on the HBC? Would be cool to add those or maybe some WE to my mix, maybe 15-20. You feed BG chunks to the HBC?
Yes, I have confirmed HBCP recruitment. Fish appear inferior, slow growing, doesn't seem to be posing any management issues at this time. Yes, my HBCP benefit from my ultra secret dock feeding program learned from DRs Dave and Bruce!
You had helped me with initial stocking numbers on the forum , my pond is over a year old now and doing great. I had asked Bob in his Wednesday calls to give me some ideas on carrying capacity and harvest info... 0.6 Acre pond, good fishing pressure and mostly by kids. I figure 5-10% of initial yearly population attrition due to hook set etc per year, especially the HSB and YP...
Bob said 250lb was good estimate for carrying capacity , said I could add some fish, and do some harvesting but didn't really elaborate.
Stocked through the year 100 YP 6-8" 50 HSB , now 12-15" 75 RES 150 HBG , now 6-8" 85 HBG, stocked at 6-8" 30 SMB, 6"-15" 15lb FHM
Feed mix of Optimal BG/Bass/ and some larger pellets they had similar to Aquamax.
I would have split those HSB numbers over the course of 4-5 years, and that's probably double what I would ever recommend for a .6 acre fishery, just FYI. Good news is you can manage their population very easily through harvest. If I missed that part of your stocking plan, I apologize. Depending on goals I'd recommend 15-25 HSB/acre ladder stocked over several years. If they aren't growing well or you notice major YP predation you can safely harvest HSB under 100 WR and would benefit the fishery overall...again, just FYI.
I'm seeing solid results from the Optimal...most notably from the improved water quality. Seems less food is wasted due to increased palatability and I'm told the formulation leads to less fish waste with fewer additives, etc. If you want to push your carrying capacity consider installing an aeration system soon...it's made a major difference in managing water quality issues for me. Optimal has earned my business - they know me by name and have fallen over themselves to correct whatever issues might have occurred.
Should I harvest any YP or HSB? I think this happens naturally with all the kids fishing, but maybe could take some more out this Spring , and then add some smaller YP and HSB to replace?
If you catch underperforming fish you can choose to adjust your management strategy with more frequent feeding/improved pellets if applicable, or harvest, or a combination of both. If you harvest be sure to keep records so you have a general idea of the fishery population remaining...supplementally stock as necessary. For HSB I ladder stock annually to keep multiple year classes present. If you are witnessing YP recruitment you will likely not have to do this.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Does anyone have any questions? Happy to help address anything.
T. How long did it take grow the crappie and were they your original stockers?
PS beautiful fish!
Hi Pat...the crappie master!
Original stocking 2010...these larger fish are originals - imagine we're getting to the end of their lifespans. I've tried to stock more but Rex can't seem to get a handle on them from Malone's any longer. Funny thing to consider is these fish were stocked at 3-4" into a 2,000 sq ft pond and had virtually no growth their first 18 months until they were transferred to the main pond [2 acres]. I wonder their top end had they not lost 1.5 years of growth...could they reach 20-21"?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Wow nice smallmouth bass, I would like to know if they use the bed you made for them, and if you have lots of young smallmouth bass.
A+
Hi Azteca:
I have fashioned elevated spawning beds for SMB in a recruitment pond I constructed and the photos are somewhere on the forum...those have worked very well for me and were easy to manage/clean every year and prevented seasonal siltation issues. I used cinder blocks to raise the front end of a pallet, laid plastic mesh over the pallet, built a hemisphere of cinder blocks on top of the pallet, then filled this cavity with 2-3" rock. I surrounded the spawning beds with rock and PVC sections to provide the SMB fry some cover to escape predation.
In my main pond I have a few areas of 3-4" limestone shelves in 3-6' depths, but have found SMB bedding on fanned clay, and can verify recruitment from at least one nest observed on the clay. I would still encourage at least installing some rock fields or elevated beds if your fishery goals include SMB recruitment to provide them the best odds. SMB fry are very easy to collect if one experiences population issues.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Thanks TJ- plan to add aeration in the Spring. You had recommended the following for a heavily fished pond / pellet fed but not trying to grow trophies: looking for high catch rates
Per 1 acre 50-100 SMB 25-50 HSB 500-750 HBG 250 RES 150-350 YP
So I did over stock HSB, my thought being I could go a bit less on other species and with the mortality involved with kids and adults for that matter ...the HSB lose each year could be high. I probably witnessed 5 or 6 snapped lines and just as many hooks or floaters after caught on the HSB....and that's just what I saw ...so I would estimate at least 10 -20 mortality on them this year.
Tough to estimate what the 'damage' is on the population but from what I saw the HSB and YP took the brunt of it.
Was thinking to add some more YP / HBG / Res is Spring ... Maybe 30/50/50 qty .
Good idea...this rings a bell now...good numbers for high angler catch rates. You're right mortality of HSB can be high esp with younger anglers and light tackle or caught during high temp season. Even I lost a few through the years, thus NO FISHING July-August. How are the HBG treating you? Should be frequent and aggressive and fun for kids and growing fast.
PS: YP are easy to sample in baited minnow traps...this June/July you should be able to get a good idea on YP recruitment and add more this Fall if necessary. If you cage and grow them out to 6-8"+ you'll have lower predation rates unless you can buy them that size. I suspect your HBG hammer YOY YP, then your SMB and HSB take a toll on those that manage to make it to age 1. You may need to employ supplemental YP stocking in the future...or, collect egg strands and raise them yourself and cut the hatchery off at the knees. Cody can direct your efforts.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Yes, almost all fishing is done with light tackle which makes for a good fight on all the species but the larger HSB can make it tough for the kids to bring in if the drag isn't set right. HBG growing well and easy for kids to catch. What I have been surprised about is the aggression of the YP during feeding , they hit the water at times pretty hard and I have even witnessed a couple beach themselves going after pellets by the shore. Catch rates have been good as well.
Only saw 1 RES caught
Was able to secure some of Yolk's SMB so want those YP to be a main part of the forage and hopefully SMB take to the feed some. Stocked those in the Fall.
Have even thought about stocking some BG to help with forage but think I will wait and see on the YP recruitment this year. Good idea on the cages etc, I am lucky to also have a close source for larger YP
Strongly advise against BG stocking, will be an ever present management issue for you down the road and they'll take up significant biomass in your carrying capacity equation since you lack predators with gape capability to effectively manage BG population. Wait and see if your fish show signs of low performance - at that time you can decide to bump up feeding rates or remove some predators or both.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Valid points , do not want them taking up so much of the carrying capacity. While managing a smaller pond is easier I don't want to spend my time culling a bunch of BG. My mix right now is going well , if I need to adjust by culling or feed rate I will go that route. Looking forward to Spring to start the feed again.
Do you add tilapia in the Summer ? Could help with some forage and algae control .
I don't use Tilapia - I don't have FA issues - the little FA growth I have I remove manually and re-purpose as mulch and potting medium. Also...I believe they are illegal in NE - just not worth the hassle for me for the potential upside.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
TJ- I just have to chime in on your fish. WOWZA! Awesome stuff! It's seeing stuff like that which keeps me motivated to keep working on my own pond and fish management. Thanks! - Luke
ps I did add some RES in October when I did some corrective stocking. Hopefully they can establish themselves and clean up my snails.
pss Your trophy BG are just mind boggling. As Sunil would say 'just sick, man!' Ha!
"Politics": derived from 'poly' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
TJ you should get the info together with the pics and do a PB article !!!! If you like I will help and if Bob doesn't steal the article I will use it as a cutting edge article. We may not have a peer reviewed article to base it on but the pics speak volumes.
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