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#484512 - 12/23/17 01:17 PM Fish growth rate
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 154
Loc: TX
Generically speaking, is fish growth rate most impacted by abundance of food more than other factors? I'm assuming size of their environment relative to population/competition for food are variables to consider, but are there other things that have a major impact? For example, do fish grow at a relatively similar rate throughout the year? or do the slow down growth in the cooler months when they are more dormant?

Trying to learn...
/c
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#484525 - 12/23/17 04:49 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19382
Loc: Miss.
Growth in most pond fish is best at about 75 F. Little growth in cold water. Food is often a limiting factor.
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#484590 - 12/26/17 11:05 AM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 765
Loc: Paris, TX
To me, this is an interesting question as to when to stop feeding. And I haven't really figured out the answer. I stopped feeding when water dropped below 55. They were still feeding, but how much of the food was being converted to body mass vs being poop out to increase nutrient load in pond? Were is that line of diminishing return, so to speak?


Edited by BrianL (12/26/17 11:05 AM)
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#484592 - 12/26/17 11:53 AM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19382
Loc: Miss.
Supplemental feeding is just that - a supplement. Fish do better if they eat some during winter - total fasting is not a good strategy. Its all about energetics - food in , minus food used , equals gain or loss. Even when cold there is still energy burned to maintain body functions like respiration , circulation , digestion etc. One important factor especially for winter is food content , natural or supplemental. Lipid content is critical for winter survival so IMO good natural forage is important as I am not convinced that manufactured feed is adequate for winter if relied upon for a high % of nutrition in cold climates. Those with sufficient fish meal handled properly are best IMO.

See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post461551


Edited by ewest (12/26/17 11:54 AM)
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#484593 - 12/26/17 12:21 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: BrianL]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4842
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: BrianL
To me, this is an interesting question as to when to stop feeding. And I haven't really figured out the answer. I stopped feeding when water dropped below 55. They were still feeding, but how much of the food was being converted to body mass vs being poop out to increase nutrient load in pond? Were is that line of diminishing return, so to speak?


I don't know the answer but I kept feeding down to and including 50 degrees (assuming my thermometer is correct, which it is just a swimming pool thermometer so it may not be).

When my water first dropped to 50, it was still almost a month early from when I stopped last year. So I figured it would warm up again. It did some and the fish fed actively all through the period with the exception of a couple of very cold windy days. I fed up till Dec 8th this year. Fish were not only feeding well but also biting well and we cleaned over 400 BG along with several CC this fall, with about half of them caught when water temps were in the 50-55 degrees range.

My feeding reasoning was, as long as they were biting a baited hook good, they were actively feeding and hungry so I was going to keep up with the supplimental feeding (3# per acre AM MVP with a little Optimal BG mixed in).

Not saying what I did was right, just what I did.


Edited by snrub (12/26/17 12:23 PM)
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#484595 - 12/26/17 12:48 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: ewest]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 765
Loc: Paris, TX
Originally Posted By: ewest
Supplemental feeding is just that - a supplement. Fish do better if they eat some during winter - total fasting is not a good strategy. Its all about energetics - food in , minus food used , equals gain or loss. Even when cold there is still energy burned to maintain body functions like respiration , circulation , digestion etc. One important factor especially for winter is food content , natural or supplemental. Lipid content is critical for winter survival so IMO good natural forage is important as I am not convinced that manufactured feed is adequate for winter if relied upon for a high % of nutrition in cold climates. Those with sufficient fish meal handled properly are best IMO.

See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post461551


So, to put in even simplier terms for me... Are you saying feed is a suppliment, and may not be as good as natural forage for winter?
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#484596 - 12/26/17 12:57 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 765
Loc: Paris, TX
Being a beginner pond owner my train of thought is if the fish are converting max % of feed to fish flesh feed, if not stop adding nutrients to the water and allow natural forage to "maintain" till growth rates can be maxed as water temp increases. Right, wrong, it depends:)?
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#484597 - 12/26/17 01:18 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
ewest Offline
Moderator
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19382
Loc: Miss.
Each person has his own goals to meet. Different ponds and fish respond differently. Some meet food requirements with a high % of pellets some hardly feed pellets at all. If you are involved in supplemental feeding then adjust feeding to fish metabolism. A little food on warm sunny winter days up north is good if they will eat it as it is a low energy cost method of providing food (they don't have to chase pellets). You might try hydrating the food for that purpose (good threads on that topic). My 2 cents is the best food is that which mimics the fishes chemistry needs (that which they have relied on for many generations and are genetically adapted toward). For predator fish (most pond fish) that is what they normally eat. Pelleted fish food has improved greatly over the years and supplemental feeding well worth the effort for most goals. It is not without issues if the fish rely on it for a high % of their needs and over long periods of time.

Basic Food Components – Nutrition

• The immense variety of cultured finfish species hampers efforts to simplify production industry wide. Approximately 170 taxa are currently cultured, including carnivores, herbivores, planktivores, and omnivores, each posing its own set of nutritional demands .
• Fish meal has proven to be an excellent dietary protein source for finfish, leading to its description as an ‘‘ideal protein.’’ The ideal protein concept is based on the premise that if the amino acid profile of the feed mimics the whole-body amino acid profile of the animal being fed, protein utilization and growth should be maximized
• Lipids, fatty acids, and their derivatives play a role in virtually every physiological process that occurs and for this reason dietary lipid composition and content represent a massive sector of overall nutrition. Nowhere is this more true than in finfish nutrition where lipid can exceed protein in the body composition of finfish, a testament to the physiological and energetic importance of this nutrient class (Tocher2003). Aside from physiological importance, lipids are indispensable energy sources, especially for finfish, which are not well-adapted to carbohydrate utilization.
• Dietary protein and energy must be kept in proper balance because a deficiency or excess of dietary energy can reduce growth rates. Fish fed diets deficient in energy will metabolize more expensive dietary protein to meet energy requirements. Excess dietary energy can decrease protein intake and suppress growth.
• finfish do not require carbohydrates in their diet, … complex carbohydrates cannot be digested and utilized efficiently by most finfish species. A general dichotomy exists in the carbohydrate digestive ability of warmwater omnivores and herbivores versus the inability of coolwater and coldwater carnivores, which lack the appropriate function necessary for digestion of carbohydrates.
• For this reason, diets fed to these fish rarely contain more than 20% complex carbohydrate
• Conversely, warmwater omnivores or herbivores (e.g., channel catfish, tilapia, common carp, and white sturgeon) adapt well to diets containing as much as 40% dietary carbohydrate .
• Although vitamins and minerals are required in minute amounts compared with protein, lipid, and so forth, they are critically important, … Every micronutrient has a deficiency disease associated with it, the effects of which are sometimes irreversible or fatal. For a few vitamins and most minerals, excess can be equally detrimental, resulting in toxicity.


Edited by ewest (12/26/17 01:20 PM)
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#484607 - 12/26/17 06:32 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
FireIsHot Offline
Moderator


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3804
Loc: Emory TX
My feeder that's adjacent to deeper water, always has a longer early winter active feeding season. The CNBG drop down to the warmer water, and then only rise for their once a day late afternoon feeding. They will not move laterally into shallower water to feed though. This winter, I'm only feeding 9.5mm pellets because seeing 5" and less CNBG actively eating this time of year is rare here. Larger CNBG that don't need protective cover, and can safely migrate away from the shoreline, seem to feed much longer into the season.

Just observational stuff.


Edited by FireIsHot (12/26/17 06:34 PM)
Edit Reason: sp
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#484608 - 12/26/17 07:47 PM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
scott69 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 998
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
it has been said many times on here that feeding during the cold isn't healthy for the bg. i am no scientist, but i just find it hard to believe. it's funny how the fish sellers in the south always push rainbow trout in the winter. one of their selling points is how well they will pellet train. there is no way to communicate to the bg, "hey don't eat this food, it's for the trout, too cold for you to be eating".

i stocked trout once in my old pond. i wanted to be able to run my feeder all year long so the bg could have feed on the days they wanted it. the days that were so cold they didn't feed, i wanted the trout to clean up the feed.

i guess it kinda worked, but the trout aren't all they are cracked up to.. just my opinion.
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#484614 - 12/27/17 10:22 AM Re: Fish growth rate [Re: KapHn8d]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19382
Loc: Miss.
In the deep south it is not uncommon fro BG to eat for 11 mths of the year and in Fla and coastal areas all year. It slows down but they will eat. It all depends on the fish's metabolism.
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