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#483966 - 12/10/17 09:27 PM Believe I finally found leak source
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
After officially pumping every last inch of water out of my pond, I believe I found there's a spring in the bottom. The pond filled up with several inches of water over a week with no rain.

So how do you go about fixing it? I have not located the spring yet. There's several inches of muck that I need to dig out first. Then I assume it's all up to packing the area in good clay?

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#483968 - 12/10/17 09:50 PM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5588
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Not saying it's not a spring, might be. FWIW Another reason the pond will fill with out rain is if you are in an area with a high water table. If that is the case, the pond level will never stabilize higher than approximately the water table level.


Edited by Bill D. (12/10/17 09:53 PM)
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#483969 - 12/10/17 10:06 PM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
I understand what you're saying. This pond is 30 yrs old and used to hold water fine. Had a big dry spell few years ago so previous owner had it dug out... too deep. Now it leaks but I didn't know that when I bought the place. I think it's a spring because the muck is sitting on top of clay that feels more rocky and shale like. The rest of the pond is solid clay. I need to remove the muck so I can find the area of rock that needs covered. In the rock there must be water or a spring seeping thru. Just not sure if this is a money pit in waiting happen or if I have a real chance of sealing this pond back up.

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#483971 - 12/11/17 12:52 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hey Brad:

What happened to your soilfloc treatment? Any improvement? Let us know when time allows, sounds like you still have an issue or maybe it's a new one?
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#483972 - 12/11/17 05:56 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
I have not used the soilfloc yet. Still have the same 8 units I think sitting out in the garage. I just didn't want to throw it in the pond until I had explored every inch of the basin. It just took me this long between work and family to get it done.

I am kind of wondering if it would even be possible to pipe the water up to the full pool level so it fills my pond rather than drain it. I am hoping I find a small fissure or crack in the rock that can be redirected.

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#483973 - 12/11/17 06:47 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
Also wanted to add that wells around here are around 100 ft deep so I don't believe I have a water table problem. There is also a spring on my property that flows so heavily that the creek never goes dry. It is about 300 yards away down well below the pond.

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#483974 - 12/11/17 07:45 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
There can be multiple layers of water table. When they dug it out they likely hit a sandstone, shale, gravel or limestone rock layer and failed to cover and compact it with clay.

If you can get a good layer of clay comacted over the rocky area you should be fine.

In a true water table pond it would be extremely hard to seal because the pressure outside the layer of clay seal at times would be greater than the pond water trying to leave causing the water to try to push away the seal into the pond. But where yours is in the bottom, as soon as you have enough water filled in the pond to equal the pressure of the water coming in, the clay layer should stay intact. If that makes sense.

In our area we have solid clay so we rarely have to worry about sealing. The exceptions are if we hit a sandstone layer or an ancient creek bed with gravel. Then we have to make sure that area is sealed with compacted clay or the gravel or porus rock can cause a leak.

My main pond dam butts up against a seasonal creek. When digging it we ran into what was likely the old stream bed thousands of years ago. We quit digging in that area and sealed it over with clay best we could (water was slowly seeping in as you describe). Had we not done so it would have been an avenue for water to follow the gravel bed to the existing current creek. I would not swear we do not have some seepage to this creek because the creek area behind the pond never goes dry while other portions of it do. But the seep must be minimal because the pond level in relation to the overflow stays essentially the same as my other ponds and area ponds. So no leak of any significance.


Edited by snrub (12/11/17 07:57 AM)
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#484023 - 12/12/17 05:51 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
John, I think you are right on the money. Did some more digging yesterday after work. Turns out my issue is not exactly a "spring" but more of limestone rock shelf that water appears to be running along. I will try to post pictures later but basically I hit solid rock under about 6 inches of clay in a certain area of my pond. Where I hit rock... the hole filled with water. I could go over a few feet and dig not hitting the shelf and the soil is decent clay that is not sopping wet and water never finds its way in. My pond has a deep bowl where the suspected leak is which again was probably created when the pond was dug out. I hope by reintroducing clay and packing it in that this area will be sealed off. First I need to get all of the muck out. I fear I will have a difficult time because the basin never really dries out and large equipment may get stuck in certain areas where the muck is knee deep.


Edited by Archer82 (12/12/17 06:09 AM)

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#484025 - 12/12/17 07:30 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I do not have any of the limestone layers in my immediate area (any rock we might hit would be sandstone) but just ten miles north of me on some ground we farm limestone layers are common. Funny how areas change over relatively short distances.

An excavator and dozer are the ticket for cleaning out muck. I have cleaned out three ponds with my dozer and it is no fun. Hard to keep the tracks on something not slick and maintain traction. With an excavator (especially if it has a long stick) can scoop out the muck while staying out of it and the dozer can keep it cleared away from the excavator so it does not have to move much or rehandle the muck to get it out of its own way.

I would love to have an excavator and may some day.

Cleaning out a 50 year old pond


Edited by snrub (12/12/17 07:34 AM)
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#484026 - 12/12/17 07:49 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
I suppose it could be sandstone but I don't see much sand around here and at the edge of the Flint Hills, we get lots of limestone outcroppings. I live 20 miles east of Wichita for reference. All I know is it was like hitting concrete with my shovel so it is hard stuff.

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#484028 - 12/12/17 07:56 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
The old Nirobrara. As I recall we are at the eastern edge of it and you would be somewhere in the middle. Lots of fossils in the limestone just north and west of me.
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#484029 - 12/12/17 08:16 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Archer82 be sure to put the date of my PBF get together on your calendar.

Would be glad to have you attend and meet you face to face.

September 22, 2018


Edited by snrub (12/12/17 08:17 AM)
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#484038 - 12/12/17 11:27 AM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
Sounds like a good time. My grandparents used to live in Pittsburg and had a couple really nice strip pits on their place.

I tried adding pics but they are too large so I'll try again later.

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#484042 - 12/12/17 12:05 PM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
You can get a picture resizer program as a free download. I have one somewhere. But I usually just email the pictures to myself. My email program then asks what size I want to send and I choose small or medium. Then save the new smaller size file from the email.

I keep the smaller sized pictures in a folder under the original folder holding the picture and call the new folder "size reduced". That way I do not have to rename the picture and can find the small picture later should I need it again.


Edited by snrub (12/12/17 12:08 PM)
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I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#484045 - 12/12/17 01:02 PM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
Archer82 Offline


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Kansas (KS)
I downloaded an app to resize them on my phone. I think I use my phone for 95% of internet and email these days.

I'll grab more pics later. Got too messy to handle it in a hurry.

Forgot to explain what I showed. One pic is a test hole that filled with water along the rock formation. The other pic is the clay I found under the muck. It's lighter colored than other areas of the pond. Most of it is black or reddish color. It feels like clay but not quite as sticky.


Attachments
20171211_143645-600x800.jpg (162 downloads)
20171211_144603-600x800.jpg (144 downloads)



Edited by Archer82 (12/12/17 01:34 PM)

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#488735 - 04/17/18 11:30 PM Re: Believe I finally found leak source [Re: Archer82]
thedford Offline


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 15
Loc: MO.
This situation is a mirror image of mine. Pond built next to a seasonal creek. with rock on bottom of the pond. Please let us know if the layer of clay compacted over the rocks works. Thanks

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