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#483753 - 12/05/17 11:10 AM How far north to stock coppernose?
peaker01 Offline


Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 3
Loc: Kentucky
I have a new pond around 2 acres in north/central Kentucky. Wanting to manage it for trophy bluegills and getting different opinions on stocking it with coppernose up there. Curious what you all think and if anyone has stocked them around there or further north. Thanks

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#483766 - 12/05/17 02:22 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19121
Loc: Miss.
Welcome to PB ! Here is part of an article from PB mag (you should subscribe) now a blog article on the topic. Take a look and then we can discuss details if you like.

http://www.pondboss.com/news/moderators-corner/which-type-of-bass-and-bluegill-are-for-you


Edited by ewest (12/05/17 02:26 PM)
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#483769 - 12/05/17 02:37 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 117
Loc: .
Source of Coppernose I would factor into discussion, even for stocking into KY waters.

Can you get Coppernose from a North Carolina or South Carolina supplier?

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#483771 - 12/05/17 02:50 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19121
Loc: Miss.
+1 or a northern Ark hatchery. There is some evidence that adaptation is occurring in some N ARK CNBG populations which were brought from FL many years ago to become brood stock for N. ARK hatcheries.
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#483772 - 12/05/17 03:01 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 117
Loc: .
At least three native stocks of Bluegill I can pick out that occur in Florida, one not a Coppernose. Those from a hatchery in Arkansas I have seen favor the most northern variant and and even more so what occurs in Georgia. If Northern Bluegill kept anywhere near the Coppernose on the Arkansas farm, then genetic contamination a good bet and that could lead to increased cold tolerance.

I spent time collecting fish from the wild and studying them in pond settings provided by central Missouri. Under conditions my ponds provide during winter, no pure Coppernose will be stocked into them.

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#483775 - 12/05/17 03:39 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19121
Loc: Miss.
I have had some (a small %) pure CNBG winter kill (cold) in Cent. MS after a several day ice over event. Reg BG and crosses did not die in those events.


Edited by ewest (12/05/17 03:41 PM)
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#483776 - 12/05/17 03:49 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
peaker01 Offline


Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 3
Loc: Kentucky
Thanks guys, I do subscribe and enjoy the magazine very much. This is my first experience having my own pond and trying to get as much as I can done right the first time.

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#483801 - 12/06/17 10:51 AM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19121
Loc: Miss.
Glad you are a subscriber to PB. Given your goals I would get northern (regular) BG. Its not just a question of survival. All the data that I have seen clearly point out that the question to ask is how well do the southern species do over time. The answer is if its cold - not very well - even if they survive performance will be much less than expected. Crosses could be a different story. As to southern X northern crosses there is some info on LMB but I have not seen any on CNBG X BG. I do know that good quality regular BG with enough food and good water can be , in your area , just as good as CNBG are in the deep south.


Edited by ewest (12/06/17 10:56 AM)
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#483836 - 12/07/17 03:08 AM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
Fatih Offline


Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 317
Loc: Turkey
Guys, is cross hybrid BG fertile? I know there are some cross species (like hybrid blue catfish) , who lose the healthy fertility after couple spawnings.


Edited by Fatih (12/07/17 03:51 AM)

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#483838 - 12/07/17 05:31 AM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 117
Loc: .
Yes, the hybrids I made are fertile. There may be a reduction in fertility, but that is not likely to be noticeable in a pond setting here there are many breeding adults.

Comment: Fertility of hybrids is a lot more common and important than what the convention of how species are often defined would indicate. Many species, including humans, show signs of hybridization in their genomes and sometimes long-term impactful crosses did not involve sister species.

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#483846 - 12/07/17 11:51 AM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19121
Loc: Miss.
HBG have been shown to have substantially reduced numbers of offspring (vs BG) which are a very high % (between 66% and 98%) male.


Edited by ewest (12/07/17 11:53 AM)
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#483857 - 12/07/17 02:59 PM Re: How far north to stock coppernose? [Re: peaker01]
Rainman Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6801
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Peaker, I'd suggest pure northern bluegill only in KY. Even IF most CNBG survive winters in your pond, you'll never see the growth from a CNBG that you will get from a northern BG, or even a Hybrid BG (BGxGSF). CNBG outside the warmest of climates almost always become a disappointment to pond owners...
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