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#457363 - 10/09/16 06:07 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
I think under any ordinary circumstances I would have been fine. It was just the culmination of several factors all at once that did me in.

Had we had a moderate rain first to get it attached to some cover or soil. Had we got it disc like we planned. Had the litter been more wet than so dry and dusty. Had we not had the stock pile right at the peak of the hill where after it was cleaned up there was still a flat circle of concentration of which the runoff went directly into that terrace.

I think in established grass the only problem you might have is if something happened just like it did for me. A huge rain right after application.

My fish in the main pond seem to be fine. I'll know in the next week or so how many of the small fish died. The only thing I really cared much about was my breeding size RES. I may try to catch a half dozen nice ones out of my forage pond for breeders for this pond when the water gets fit. That actually might be beneficial, because then the only large fish (of reproduction capability size) would be the RES I put in there. The small RES or BG that survive would be sometime next summer before they could spawn. That would give the brood RES a jump start.

This might not have been such a bad deal after all!


Edited by snrub (10/09/16 06:09 PM)
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#457538 - 10/13/16 10:33 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2046
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, my sediment pond is filling up with sand after heavy rain events. What used to be 8' deep is now 3' deep. This was the purpose of this sediment pond and was designed to stop that same sand from going into the pond. The problem I see coming is where to put all the sand when I re dig this sediment pond. Looks like it will need to be cleaned up about every yr or so. I have thought of dong what I think u have done and that is building another sediment pond above and behind the first one. I am a little concerned that doing it this way might reduce the amount of water that enters the main pond. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#457546 - 10/13/16 12:48 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13130
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Tracy, I also have a lot of sand. My land is essentially a long rocky and sandy hill. I'm sure that the floods of the last couple of years have reduced my depth. I've dropped cedar trees in some of the runoff areas to hold back the sand and have rerouted some of the areas to hold it back. But I can't stop it all.
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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#457593 - 10/14/16 08:51 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2046
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Thanks Dave, I read in earlier post's where u had added some cedars to your runoff areas and so I did something similar by using some good old E Texas brush. Thanks for your earlier post. I also planted some rice in the ditch along with building some small levies hoping to reduce the amount of sand going into the sediment and the big pond. It has helped but I have now come to realize I will have to dig out the sand if I want to continue to raise fhm's in this sediment pond. snrub mentioned having two sediment ponds and was wondering if they tied into each other and if it had affected the big ponds water levels. That is one of my concerns because the runoff area is the main contributory to my big ponds water supply. My sediment pond is now raising two things, Fhm's and Bull Frogs. I have 15 small 6" bull frogs living in this pond along with about two pounds of fhm's. I have already added an additional pound of them to the big pond so far. Now I am wondering where to place all this sand when I redig the pond this coming spring. If I build a beach area, the sand might just run into the pond and so I am back to square one.


Edited by TGW1 (10/14/16 08:57 AM)
Edit Reason: sp
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#457597 - 10/14/16 09:59 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1575
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Can you spread the sand downhill from the watershed?
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#457600 - 10/14/16 10:41 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13130
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Tracy, a neighbor dug out a lot of sand. He spread it around a field and disked it in.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#457789 - 10/17/16 11:05 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub
Originally Posted By: snrub
Added a Pre-sediment pond to the sediment pond. Had room in the terrace channel coming into the sediment pond to make an approximate 40'long by 20' wide by 5-6' deep mini-mini-mini pond.

This one is small enough I can easily clean it out with the backhoe as needed. It should catch the largest dirt particles and any corn shucks or debris that comes of the agriculture field right next to it. Ag field is in the background in the first picture.

Water comes from the field via a terrace, through a double culvert that has a road over the top, and dumps directly into this very small pond. It then exits this pond and runs over about 30' of the original terrace channel (which is rocked and is part of a 4-wheeler road) into the sediment pond. Then ultimately the water goes from the sediment pond into the main pond.

Pictures are poor. It snowed before I thought of taking some. Will get better pictures when it fills with water.

The clay piled to the left in the first picture (to the right in second picture) will eventually be moved out and used elsewhere.

May throw a few FHM in it next spring just for kicks.


Wanted to add an observation to this thread. Last year I had added a few 4" RES to this pre-sediment pond and many many small 2" BG had swam upstream into it during numerous rain events (only time water flows) from the sediment pond and had grown to 3" or so. Lots of FHM too. I could observe them from the bank and trapped lots of them to put in the main pond.

An interesting thing happened. We had a reasonably large rain event that caused lots of flow through on this tiny pond (which is expected). I found a couple of dead 5" RES after the water subsided and no small BG to be found and only a small population of mid size FHM. Either most of the fish washed down stream into the sediment pond or died.

Previously high water flows have caused small fish to swim upstream and populate this pond. This time something else happened. I don't have a definative answer as to what happened or why, but somw possibilities.

First, the runoff of the corn field came very fast. There was probably at least a ten times full volume water exchange in this pond within a time period of a few hours (this pre-sediment pond is only about 40' long by 20' wide by 6' deep). It was a cold rain following unusually warm weather and warm water.

One thought is that extreme temp and/or Ph change got to the fish and killed them. Or at least some of the larger ones and the smaller ones stressed and washed into the sediment pond (it is about 1/10th of an acre). The other possibility is the field had been sprayed with a corn herbicide a few days earlier so herbicide runoff could have also possibly stressed the fish. Water went from clear/green with a nice algae bloom to muddy in a short time (the very reason this pre-sediment pond was built to be the first line of defense from runoff from this field - so it is doing its job). Or a combination of stress factors.

Loosing the fish is not a big deal. The tiny pond is to catch sediment before it reaches the sediment pond or main pond. I just thought it interesting observation of what happened after this small pond had been so fertile in small fish numbers and now it is almost without fish. The water is starting to clear up. I'm sure with another rain small fish will again migrate up to it and repopulate it. Probably for this same thing to happen all over again at some future date.

Tiny ponds with hugh flow through have some special chalenges.



Decided to do something about the high flow through in the pre-sediment pond. Not really able to change the amount of flow through, but change the way the fish can react to it. Basically I connected the pre-sediment pond directly to the sediment pond via a 6" PVC pipe that is about a foot under water at full pool. That way fish can swim back and forth from pond to pond where before they were stuck in the ponds separately till a large rain event. Now they can travel back and forth through the pipe at will. This will hopefully allow fish to move down stream to better water as large inflows happen. Pictures below.

Covered the pipe with coarse rock that water can also permeate through. I also dug the pre-sediment pond about 25% larger. That brought it closer to the sediment pond so I was able to use a single 20' joint of pipe to connect the two ponds while also allowing a little larger sediment area.

I wanted to keep the ponds separate instead of just completely joining them both into a single pond for a couple of reasons. By keeping them apart and controlling water flow I should get a lot of the sedimentation dropping out in the pre-sediment pond which I can clean out with a backhoe. Also I wanted to maintain a road between them where I drive the 4-wheeler. If at some point I do want to treat the ponds differently, all I have to do is put a 6" cap on the pipe. Then they will be separate BOW's again.

Under light runoff conditions all the water will flow through the 6" pipe. When the flow is higher than the pipe can handle the water will run over the top just like it used to.


Attachments
IMGA1876.JPG (153 downloads)
Description: Dug trench between ponds with backhoe

IMGA1877.JPG (174 downloads)
Description: Installed 6" sched 40 PVC pipe. Covered with coarse 2-3" lateral crushed limestone




Edited by snrub (10/17/16 11:20 PM)
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#457813 - 10/18/16 01:49 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1575
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I like what you have done with the ponds...you have a complete fishery there.
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#457822 - 10/18/16 04:22 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
I've raised the level on all three ponds now. This is what the new level looks like in the forage pond (front of picture) and sediment pond (rear). The main pond is to the right of the first picture and as I recall at the time was a few inches over full pool running out the overflow.

If it every dries up and I get the time, I'm going to add about 18" to the water level in my old pond. But that will take some dirt work and adding an overflow pipe. Just a dirt/rock overflow area right now.

We really like the new water levels.


Attachments
IMGA1918.JPG (156 downloads)
Description: Forage pond (front of picture), sediment pond (rear) and east side of main pond (right).

IMGA1928.JPG (144 downloads)
Description: sediment pond overflow - note water in elbow is water level of main pond

IMGA1923.JPG (136 downloads)
Description: water level of main pond at the time.


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#458414 - 10/29/16 10:46 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
snrub, my sediment pond is filling up with sand after heavy rain events. What used to be 8' deep is now 3' deep. This was the purpose of this sediment pond and was designed to stop that same sand from going into the pond. The problem I see coming is where to put all the sand when I re dig this sediment pond. Looks like it will need to be cleaned up about every yr or so. I have thought of dong what I think u have done and that is building another sediment pond above and behind the first one. I am a little concerned that doing it this way might reduce the amount of water that enters the main pond. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks


My little addition I call the Pre-Sediment pond is just wide enough I can reach the middle with the backhoe and I just extended it to where it is now probably 50' long. Maybe 5-6' deep. So it should be really easy to clean out with my backhoe. As far as additional water, the size of it and the gallons held is minimal compared to my main pond. I think its benefits will far outweigh any extra evaporation loss I might get and as far as taking away water from my main pond I think will also be minimal.

In the picture below the water is still flowing and I have since added just enough gravel so at full pool I can drive over the tube without driving through water. Water now flows through a 6" tube during low flow rain events but spills over this drive during big rains.


Attachments
IMGA1909.JPG (127 downloads)
Description: Pre-sediment pond




Edited by snrub (10/29/16 10:49 PM)
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#458416 - 10/29/16 11:06 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
Well the fish truck from Dunns came around last Thursday and decided to see if the water was fit for fish to live after the total fish kill in this pond. Got 100 2" RES and 2# of FHM and put about 70 of the RES and about a pound of FHM in this 1/10th acre sediment pond. I took an extra long time to acclimate them since the water was still stained very brown with tannin. But algae was growing new around the edges and there were snails galore moving around in the shallows. I first put a small batch in to see if they went immediately belly up and they seemed ok so put the rest in.

No floaters the next day so all seems ok.

Then I started catching RES out of my forage pond. Since the little ones had not died, started putting adult RES in also. Had I known I would be able to catch bigger fish I likely would not have even bought any fingerlings. So far have put 9 adult RES ranging from 5" up to a couple that were 10"+. Couple 9" and a couple 7". Am going to try and catch one more and make it 10.

That should give me adult RES that are ready to spawn next spring, then the 2" fingerlings from Dunn's should be spawning size by late next summer. So hopefully will have a pond full of RES by next fall.

I think I had a complete fish kill in this pond. All the big fish died and a lot of fish on the bank all the way down to an inch and two inch in length. So if any lived they likely would be small fish. Saw just a handful of Gams but I think they came in a couple days later from the pre-sediment pond where quite a few Gams (and maybe BG) survived. Since these two ponds are now connected by a 6" tube, it is possible there could be some small BG. Or maybe not.

But at any rate, with these big RES I am putting in this pond, they should have the upper hand on any spawning that goes on next year. That is unless we have another huge rain where BG and who knows what can swim upstream and get in. But I am hoping for lots of RES recruitment next year.

Some of the brood stock pics below.


Attachments
IMGA1959.JPG (128 downloads)
IMGA1962.JPG (125 downloads)
IMGA1964.JPG (103 downloads)
IMGA1965.JPG (134 downloads)



Edited by snrub (10/29/16 11:07 PM)
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#470758 - 04/29/17 03:54 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
Anyone building a new pond or even adding to an old pond, I highly recommend adding some sort of sediment or settling pond ahead of the main pond if you have a watershed that tends to have sediment erosion or high nutrient loads.

Below are pictures that are actually showing that the sediment pond is being over loaded. In other words some sediment and muddy water is flowing through the sediment pond and making it to the main pond. But imagine how much more sediment and mud would be getting into the main pond without first flowing through the sediment pond and a much small pre-sediment pond I have ahead of the sediment pond. At least the larger particles are being dropped in the sediment pond before it reaches the main pond.

I believe my sediment pond will make my main pond last numerous more years and keep the water in better shape each year by first having the portion of runoff that comes off agricultural land first flow through the pre-sediment and sediment ponds.

First two pictures are from a couple days ago right after a fairly large rain. Last two pictures are from today where enough water flowed the overflow pipe could not handle all of it so some was going over the emergency overflow. Most average rains the overflow pipe will handle the water.

Both ponds in last two pictures several inches over full pool.


Attachments
IMGA2165.JPG (114 downloads)
Description: Water in sediment pond flowing into the overflow pipe that goes to main pond

IMGA2164.JPG (105 downloads)
Description: Water flowing out of sediment pond into main pond during a fairly large rain event before sediment can fully settle out,

IMGA2180.JPG (95 downloads)
Description: Rain today flowing from sediment pond into main pond

IMGA2181.JPG (103 downloads)
Description: emergency overflow water flowing from sediment pond into main pond




Edited by snrub (04/29/17 04:00 PM)
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#481444 - 10/21/17 11:12 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
Been fishing this sediment pond pretty hard to clear out some of the unwanted fish to give more room for the RES to reproduce.

If you read above I had a fish kill in this pond last year and restocked it about this time last year. Obviously it was not a total kill because I have been removing some HBG, CNBG and GSF that would be about the right size to have been fingerlings that survived last year. Hybrids and CNBG I move to my main pond and the GSF I either clip the tails and put in main pond for bass feed or get rid of them. Also been trapping with minnow traps and doing the same.

So some fish survived, but what about the RES I stocked? (the only thing I re-stocked). Well I caught two RES tonight and based on their size I would guess they were a couple of adults I stocked a year ago. If they were from the fingerlings I stocked they would have grown really fast, so I suspect they were not. At least it is good to know there are some RES in there, as they are the desired species I want to increase numbers.

Pretty nice RES. I would like to have lots just like them. Maybe I do and just can't catch them. crazy


Attachments
20171021_171400.jpg (59 downloads)
Description: First RES caught

20171021_174235.jpg (51 downloads)
Description: Second RES caught




Edited by snrub (10/22/17 12:51 AM)
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#483829 - 12/06/17 10:23 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4293
Loc: SE Kansas
This sediment pond is taking a new direction today, as far as the fish in it are concerned. Its primary function is to catch sediment and some of the nutrients from ag land runoff before it reaches my main pond. That function has not changed.

There is only about 6" difference elevation full pool of this 1/10th acre sediment pond in relation to my main 3 acre pond it feeds into. I have always assumed that eventually LMB fingerlings would swim upstream via the emergency overflow or the overflow pipe from my main pond into this sediment pond. I know northern BG have (I watched them do it) and CC have (I caught a few hook and line and netted a few at the time of the fish kill). But as far as I know no LMB. I think the only reason is that I am getting no LMB recruitment in my main pond. No small LMB in my main pond so none to be available to swim up during high water event.

LMB in this sediment pond changed today. I stocked 100 4"-6" LMB from Hartley Fish Farm. My thinking is I am getting more GSF than I want to see in this tiny pond. I knew some day the BG would over populate and I would need to introduce a predator if none got there via high water. But after the fish kill, more GSF survived than BG. I did restock RES but the GSF were likely to run roughshod over the pond come next year.

So......... I needed multiple sizes of LMB added to my main pond. I have friends catch LMB out of my main pond what appears to be in the 4-6# range. I caught one about 2-3# this fall. I have larger LMB but seem to get no recruitment. We filleted over 400 BG this fall and caught and released at least that many over the year and out of all that BG fishing I caught a total of 2 LMB. I should be catching various sizes of small LMB while BG fishing, but I do not.

So this pond is going to be the solution to the lack of LMB recruitment. That and the 400+ BG I removed from my main pond. Plan is to raise these LMB to a size my big LMB can not eat them, catch them by hook and line, and transfer them to the main pond where they are needed to control my out of control BG population. So this sediment pond is now going to be a LMB rearing pond for a time. The 100 fingerling LMB should whup up on the GSF in there. Once they get about a foot long I will start catching them and over a year period try to remove as many as I can catch before they reach spawning size/age. Then go from there. At some point I likely will get recruitment in this pond (because I will never be able to catch all 100 and remove every one) and face an over supply of LMB fingerlings. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get to it.


Attachments
20171206_131744.jpg (29 downloads)
Description: 100 LMB fingerlings stocked




Edited by snrub (12/06/17 10:31 PM)
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