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I'll start off by saying that mine is most likely a terrible opinion on the subject and therefore shouldn't be assigned much weight, but here goes. It's only one opinion from a socially withdrawn individual anyway.

Is it expensive to attend a PB conference? Heck yes. Is it worth it? Well....in my case probably not. But if someone is new to ponds, or totally infatuated with everything pondish, I have no doubt they will come away feeling satisfied. I have been to a conference at Big Cedar, and have attended a few regional events. And without a doubt the thing that still stays with me even today, is getting to meet, and hang out with people I met through the website. It's great.

Now the speakers and presentations? I'm on the fence. I feel that a lot, a whole lot actually, of conference content and magazine content as well, is almost painfully detailed. If I'm laying up a concrete block retaining wall, I don't need to know where the aggregate inside the block was procured, and by what quarrying method. I just need to know that the finished block meets relevant specs, and some help on how to lay the first course straight and level would be most appreciated. I can take it from there.

And that's where the pond/fish infatuation comes into play. If you're one of those ultra detail guys, you have much to gain by attending the presentations. The same with the vendors... in this day and age, I can find pretty much whatever I want where product and info is concerned, right at my keyboard. If you need to see it firsthand, or fondle it, or delve into excruciatingly detailed analysis with a rep, then that's another great reason to attend.

But if you're going for some simple fellowship, to meet the people you know from the forum, that's a bit of a different animal for me. That's the part I like.....just hanging out and talking about everything....not just ponds or fish. And you can do that at a conference. But it isn't always easy, due to the afore-mentioned presentations and vendors. It sometimes seemed to me that there was too much happening to allow much fellowship. I have enjoyed myself much more at regional get togethers, some "sanctioned" by PB, some just off the cuff, hanging out and fishing. So is a conference worth it, if socializing is your goal? To me it isn't, but that's just me.

Is the PB enterprise geared towards Texans? I would definitely say yes. There's a strong Texas contingent, many know each other, PB itself is based in Texas, and well, let's just throw it out there: PB is a business. And the goal is profit. Why wouldn't you play to the money, just a little? If I had a business selling maple syrup supplies, I wouldn't spend as much time talking to folks in Tennessee as I would people in Vermont. I would be happy to sell product to Tennessee, and would be glad to travel and promote my business wherever the opportunity presented itself. But the bulk of my energy would probably be spent further north. That's where my bread ( or pancake) is buttered at.

The growing season for fish is longer down south. It doesn't mean the northern pondmeisters are removed from the theatre, it just means their seats are a little further from the stage. Nothing personal, just economics.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Not a terrible opinion at all sprkplug. Sounds pretty thoughtful if you ask me.

The focus of the get together I am planning is just going to be mostly hanging out with like minded friends. Maybe a little fishing and if we come up with some informative stuff that is fine too. But just getting to know other PBF'ers is the main goal.

You are right about a major conference being jam packed so much that social time is sometimes limited. I have a little bit of a hard time socializing at such events anyway. So many people in one place kind of intimidates me. I feel much more comfortable in a smaller group.

Last edited by snrub; 11/29/17 08:55 PM.

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John, Sparkie
You both hit it on the head!

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I'm going to disagree. (Imagine that)

The conference is what you make of it.

Yes there are booths with wears to see and there are great speakers with a great deal of information and there are a lot of people to talk with. All true. But if that is all you take form the conference, you have missed the elephants in the room. Yes I can watch youtube and see "experts" doing anything I want to "learn" but, I can interact with everyone at the conference. I get to ask my questions, and I get to answer the questions posed to me. I get to laugh with people from all over the gambit. I get to talk to real people that have done interesting things and I get to ask them why.

Interaction, friendship, reunions and sharing are why we go. We look forward to the conferences and save up early. In short, we plan on these events and can't wait for the next one.

Funny how many people pay for cigarettes, alcohol, game day tickets, parking, ect. and other "treats" and balk at paying for knowledge. Amazing.


rant complete.


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Brian, I don’t pay for alcohol, cigarettes, or game day tickets. Have zero desire for all three. If I were to think about it, I might come up with when the last time I paid for parking was. I know the point you’re trying to make, but my point is that I see no reason to pay for what I’m not going to use. That’s why I don’t subscribe to the mag anymore.

I do not consider ponds/fish to be a rapidly evolving, fast paced, constantly changing endeavor. Or at least not applicable to my level of involvement. I have no problem paying for answers, provided I have a question in the first place. I don’t anymore. My level of knowledge is sufficient for my level of involvement with our ponds. And that knowledge came mostly from this forum. When somebody builds the ultimate BG, I’m all ears. But until that happens, those same BG that have been stocked in Hoosier ponds for the last 50 years are doing very well for me. And for my ambitions, I have them figured out as far as I need to.

I agree on the fellowship angle of attending a conference, and said so in my earlier post. That’s the draw for me. But to be blunt, taking off work and driving 1600 miles to spend a couple days, while spending several hundred dollars to do so, is to me, silly. You live in Texas. Myself and many others facing the same conundrum do not. If I’m going to take the time and spend the money, it needs to be on something for the entire family.

In other words, attending a conference does not provide an acceptable return on my investment. Harsh perhaps, but true nonetheless.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Tony,
That's a different answer.


Brian

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Actually, Spark, I don't think you pay for usage of the forum and you 'use' it all the time (now, granted, we have (1) anonymous donor this year, and that could be you. If so, my first point is mute, and that is not to try and 'call' you out; obviously the amount of active members that donate is low).

So, I think your comment that you "....see no reason to pay for what I’m not going to use," may not wholly truthful.

You also don't mention that you self-admittedly don't like being around groups of people, more so than just discomfort. In fact, I think you have even said that your own family gatherings are hard for you get through. Nothing wrong with that, but certainly, that would be a major factor in 'not' going to large conferences.

I also take exception to the comment that Pond Boss caters to Texans. Sure Lusk is from Texas and that was where it all started, but (3) PB Con's have been in Missouri.

Regarding general comments about affluence and how it may relate to being able to 'afford' to attend one of the conferences, I would suggest that just be even being a land owner, and a land owner with a pond, you are already at a higher level of 'affluence' compared to the rest of the population. This fact is one of the reason why we all feel so much kinship here...we mostly all share that 'land ownership' mentality.

Finally, I'm miffed as to why you seek to let the forum know that you don't subscribe to the magazine, repeatedly. Do you want others to follow your example? A lot of us subscribe to the magazine simply to support Pond Boss.


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"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Sunil, as a moderator it feels to me that you are walking close to the line of making several very personal attacks. Highlighting your issues with his generosity, his personality flaws, his personal affluence (wealth), and his honest feeling that he doesn't get much from the magazine anymore as negative things make me feel uncomfortable. Perhaps you can take further discussion with him about these issues into a private message.

Spark has given back to many of us in a multitude of ways (even offering free advice via private message when our small engines need tuning...). he has given in many ways to the forum and I can't see he owes any money beyond what he feels truly inclined to give.

Missouri (and Texas) are a long way away from Freedom Indiana.

This thread was giving everyone the opportunity to give honest feedback about going to these events. The feedback from those who actually went should be the most important. Those who didn't go should be free to say why they didn't go, or what might have changed their plans to allow them to go. I was hoping we could keep the environment friendly and supportive so EVERYONE could feel free to speak honestly about the good and the bad and the PB team could use that feedback constructively. I hope more will weigh in on this.

I hope there was opportunity for this feedback to be given in writing at the time of the conference? Was their feedback sheets distributed and collected at the time of the conference to rate the speakers, event venue, food, cost, and to ask how things could be improved so that more could come? Having that feedback while the conference is fresh in their mind is helpful. You also have to be sure that people feel comfortable leaving the feedback so you have to accept anonymous feedback too.

It takes courage to be honest about your feelings in this forum and we want people's feedback to be accepted. Calling them out as lesser members because they don't see conference costs as justifiable for their family, or because they don't donate enough to the PB Forum or didn't subscribe enough years to the magazine is going to scare folks away from expressing their feelings.

I hope this thread isn't locked as it really was a great way to get those feelings out in the open.

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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Finally, I'm miffed as to why you seek to let the forum know that you don't subscribe to the magazine, repeatedly. .


Yes I agree Sunil.....talk about "biting the hand that feeds".

Blah blah blah about all the reasons NOT to Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine which could very well discourage newbies or people on the fence from subscribing...(OMG such a HUGE quality of life threatening expense to subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine! - booo whoo")...but then cover the passive aggressive by claiming "but that's just me". Sure PondBoss is for profit....just like almost everyone on this forum is in some kind of job or endeavor "for profit"....there are places in the world that discourage profit like hellholes North Korea and Cuba and we see how that works out.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Please, let's not endeavour to drive someone from the forum. A lot of my neighbors around here have ponds much nicer than my little puddles, and they are by no means affluent. Land passed down from family, etc. Land and dirt work is almost "dirt cheap" here compared to most other places.

Sprkplug's posts have helped me a lot since I have been a member, and I thank him. I have even PM'd with him about engine problems, and he led me to the correct conclusion.

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canyoncreek, I appreciate your comments. It could look like a personal attack if you are looking at it too closely, but it's not.

I would suggest to step back from it a bit and digest Spark's two posts, and how a lot of 'color' is left out of the final opinion.

If you don't support the forum, or subscribe to the magazine, who would think that you would attend the conference? If somebody doesn't pay for much of anything, what weight do you put on their opinion to NOT spend even more money?

Finally, anything I said specifically about Spark is based on what is openly discussed on the forum.

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A lot of people from different areas also traveled to Missouri for the Conferences there.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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John, nobody is saying that Spark doesn't help people, or that he shouldn't be around.

We're talking about attendance to the conferences and I'm qualifying his comments with things that he left out.

My comment about affluence as it applies to land/pond ownership is a general statement, but still valid. Even if you inherited your land/pond, you still pay taxes on the land, and spend more than the average person to maintain and/or improve your land.

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The reality is everyone's opinion is valid for the reason they do or do not attend conferences. This is input to the ones that put the conferences on. The conference designers know they can not get everybody to attend, so by knowing the thoughts of the potential attendees they at least know who best to target.

I did not necessarily agree with all sprkplug said, but it does not mean his opinion is not worth anything to conference designers and he certainly did take the time and the effort to make a thoughtful reply.

My idea on opinions is that first of all, everybody has one. And second if I only wanted to consider my own views, why not just talk to myself?

Last edited by snrub; 11/30/17 10:44 AM.

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Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost EDIT: Distance, Time
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost?? EDIT: He attended.
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.


Last edited by Sunil; 11/30/17 10:20 PM. Reason: canyon creek was not due to cost

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Sunil, what did you expect? Asking for a “why” doesn’t guarantee you will receive the answers you hoped for. It’s absolutely true that I would still have a hard time attending if it were free. I mentioned that challenge in my first post. As far as using the forum, I don’t see it that way. I haven’t asked for info in years. I try to help when I can. If I need to pay for the priveledge to help well...


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I think this shows why these conferences are so hard to pull off. People, even pond folks, are different in so many ways:
Financial
Personality types(extroverts vs introverts)-I'm the last
Knowledge levels, What I knew and wanted to learn last PB vs this PB is a good bit different
How frugle you are smile
Everyone sees value differently
On and on.......

But feedback is always good, even when its not what you want to hear.


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OK, Spark. I had no expectations for 'why' people didn't attend, and I didn't ask the question.

So let's delve in....

Here's you from three posts back: "I’m still at work so cannot get too in-depth right now, but I’m glad this came up. Will try and collect my thoughts for later. Definitely feel what others are saying, and I’m glad to see I am not alone in thinking things might be a bit out of kilter."

So something is 'out of kilter,' and you're 'glad' this topic came up so you can give an explanation of why you didn't go to the PB Con when all the while, you really had no intention of going to the PB Con at all, even if it was free.

In your next (2) posts, the first being your composed reply to the 'question,' and the second being your reply to highflyer, you cite a lot of reasons for not attending, and evolve to the conclusion that attending the conference does "...not provide an acceptable return on my investment."

And finally, in conclusion, it's now set forth that you're just here to help others.

I'll try to digest all that and figure out how it helps Pond Boss.

And, I never said you had to pay anything, nor anyone else had to pay. I only used that fact that you didn't pay anything to highlight that there could be no expectation that you would actually pay for even more Pond Boss than what you already have (eg/ attending a Pond Boss Conference).


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Wow. No good deed goes unpunished.

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Delve in we shall...

I never said you asked the question. But you still responded angrily to my answers, even though they were not directed towards you.

When I said I thought something was out of kilter, and I needed time to collect my thoughts, I wasn't just talking about the conference. I'm talking about the conference, the magazine, and even the forum. In my opinion, all three have really began favoring a certain segment....affluent pond owners. When I read a story in the mag about someone building a 35 acre lake, with waterfalls, petting zoos, three story floating docks, wetbar, whatever....then read where it took an entire fleet of earthmovers three weeks working round the clock seven days a week to gouge the thing out, and we haven't even touched on the stocking plan...$$$$$$$$

Well, that is so far removed from what I consider pond reality, that it becomes kinda' ridiculous in my eyes. And I'm betting that for every one of those pond high rollers, there's hundreds of down-to-earth pond owners, with a one acre BOW, working overtime every week to make ends meet. Contrary to what some may believe, there are a great many pond owners who do not have the disposable income to spend on a conference. I don't know of ONE pondowner who would entertain the idea of flying someone out to consult onsite. Not one. Sure, I get the appeal of playing to the high rollers...I totally do. And making money is what business is about, plain and simple. But why are we wondering about low attendance, and low subscription rates? It just seems obvious to me. Maybe a little more consideration for the common pondowner, with his or her goals.

And let me aid your digestion of how all this helps pondboss......it doesnt. I'm not here to help pondboss, I'm trying to help other pondmeisters when I can. Pondboss doesn't need my help. Or at least it shouldn't.

Finally, lets talk payment. No, I do not subscribe. No, I do not support the forum any longer. When I decided earlier this year to stop subscribing, I did contact Bob and donate the cost of a subscription to a member who was unable to afford one himself. I asked for it to remain anonoymous. Maybe the donor you spoke of earlier is me, I don't know. I felt that just because I didn't see the value any longer, didn't mean that someone else wouldn't. And I told Bob so.

I don't figure this thread will survive much longer, so whatever. If someone is enamored with Pondboss, that's great, no problem on my end. I have learned a great deal from my time spent here, and really do appreciate the info. But I feel I settled any debt owed some time ago.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.

Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 11/30/17 06:38 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost??
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.



I did attend Sunil. I just said I "coughed" at the total cost to attend. But I do that about a lot of things, so it does not mean all that much. It's just my kids inheritance, after all. grin

And nobody needs to quit the forum John F. It is just kind of like the effects of eating beans. It causes some noise but passes eventually.

Last edited by snrub; 11/30/17 07:33 PM.

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Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.


No, you didn't harass at all. The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I deleted my original post on this topic as I have never attended a PB conference and did not feel my input was relevant. But now since Sunil is gathering data, here goes.

I did not attend due to health (heart can't decide whether it wants to stop or beat too fast).

We have a little .5 +/- acre watertable pond with aeration already so not really interested in buying vendor products or learning about managing ponds different than my own. Anything I learned would however be a plus. Tough job for the organizers to come up with speakers and topics that are relevant to most everybody.

My main reason for attending would have been to meet other forum members, you know, put names to faces and lie to each other about the size fish in our ponds. smile So, for me, expensive for what I'm looking to get out of it. I don't really need the luxury.

To be honest, the GTG Snrub is planning fits better with my goals. I will do my best to attend that. I might only spend a couple three hours at Snrub's before I need to head back to the motel but, it will still be well worth the trip to meet some of you jokers! It might take me a couple days to get there and a couple days to get home but I can always try to find interesting sites on my journey like "Worlds largest ball of string," biggest ear of corn, two headed piglet, etc. at gas stations and truck stops along the way to keep me entertained! grin

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/30/17 08:42 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost?? EDIT: He attended.
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.



Small correction, my first barrier is distance. Location, location. Vacation time is precious, spending much of the time away in the car getting there and getting back is a deal breaker. Of course if it is far away then you also lock in the costs of possibly airfare (to shorten the travel time), overnight lodging and meals.

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cro, HC1968
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